My barb feels less UBER

[stoopid_cowboy]

I know that the enhancements are new and totally different, but my "go-to DPS frenzy barb" feels like it it lacking. Badly!
Hp's are down about 50hp, the tree is full of annoying clickie attacks. I dunno, I am just not happy with the "enhancements"...
Frenzy barb as we know it was AWESOME! Now with the changes, I feel like my uber barb is now mediocre (at best).

Has anyone else noticed the same thing???

yuda

[DrawingGuy]

I actually have to agree. Frenzy tree is capped by enhancements with feat requirements on a feat starved class and a cap that doesn't even make sense (why the hell would I take -1 attack, -1 AC and 1d20 damage that stacks for ONE damage?! Worst Cap ever. Make it 100 base damage, and we can talk). Occult is filled with stat damages that are useless in epic content, weaker versions of abilities in other trees, and faced with a fact that just running up and stunning a mage negates 90% of the mage abilities and is better than those mage abilities anyways. Ravager has stupid proc limits, once again ability damages that are useless in epics, and ends with a cap clicky that consumes your precious rages.

The short story is that Barb is now more expensive to reach what it once was with most abilities either useless or like Storm's Eye which makes your character weaker. With other classes receiving buffs, Barbarian has went from the strongest melee damage class to the weakest - every single one of my other characters in Beta has better DPS/abilities than my Barb and doesn't hurt themselves doing it. I'm just glad we're getting stones as pure Barb is no longer worth it as for some reason they LOSE the respectable cap they used to have in place of not a single cap that's worth it. 18 barb/2 Fighter is no longer a choice made of sacrificing STR and glancing blow damage for the two feats... it now gains you much much better enhancements along with the feats. End story, you'll do MORE damage, have BETTER DCs, more dodge (aka survivability), etc while losing nothing from Barb. And as you turn more and more levels to other classes, you further increase DPS and survivability until you properly reach 0 Barb levels.

Barb enhancements need desperate revision.

[Hendrik]

I know that the enhancements are new and totally different, but my "go-to DPS frenzy barb" feels like it it lacking. Badly!
Hp's are down about 50hp, the tree is full of annoying clickie attacks. I dunno, I am just not happy with the "enhancements"...
Frenzy barb as we know it was AWESOME! Now with the changes, I feel like my uber barb is now mediocre (at best).

Has anyone else noticed the same thing???

yuda

Yuda, you have always been mediocre at best.

[pawpaw2000]

Barbarian rage currently turns off power attack, that is probably hurting your DPS a lot. (Unless this was fixed since I was last on Lammania.)

[Thrudh]

I know that the enhancements are new and totally different, but my "go-to DPS frenzy barb" feels like it it lacking. Badly!
Hp's are down about 50hp, the tree is full of annoying clickie attacks. I dunno, I am just not happy with the "enhancements"...
Frenzy barb as we know it was AWESOME! Now with the changes, I feel like my uber barb is now mediocre (at best).

Has anyone else noticed the same thing???

yuda

I was able to get all the same ehnancements I did with my 18/2 barb/fighter before plus some new stuff...

You get all the important Frenzied Barbarian stuff (Frenzy, Death Frenzy, +3 crit multiplier, bunch of extra STR)

I'm not sure what's different for you.

With my fighter levels, I was able to squeeze in full 30% haste boost (instead of the measly 15% I have on live), plus +3 to tactics, and extra action boosts.

My guy is definitely better in the new system.

[SerPounce]

Pure 20 barbarian is probably going to be pretty bad, just like 20 fighter and 20 paladin. But 18/2 should gain a lot as Thrud said. It's a brave new world of multi-classing melees now. Monks can probably get away with going pure because they're just so strong anyway, and assassins and tempests have competitive capstones (still probably not as good as a splash, but at least competitive), but barbarians, fighters, and paladins all NEED multiclass now. Going 20 in any of those is just silly now.

[smckelv]

Pure 20 barbarian is probably going to be pretty bad, just like 20 fighter and 20 paladin. But 18/2 should gain a lot as Thrud said. It's a brave new world of multi-classing melees now. Monks can probably get away with going pure because they're just so strong anyway, and assassins and tempests have competitive capstones (still probably not as good as a splash, but at least competitive), but barbarians, fighters, and paladins all NEED multiclass now. Going 20 in any of those is just silly now.

Much as I hate to agree, I do because the logic is sound (based on game design designs past and now u19). But that doesn't make the pill any less bitter to swallow...that being said, color me silly because I will explore every barbarian possibility at cap before I LR into a splash. My first look at the enhancement trees on Lamma indicated the need to fill in across all three trees and cap one probably. Yea the capstones are kind of underwhelming. But this all needs more of a test drive on Live before anything should be written in stone in my humble opinion.

[DrawingGuy]

I was able to get all the same ehnancements I did with my 18/2 barb/fighter before plus some new stuff...

You get all the important Frenzied Barbarian stuff (Frenzy, Death Frenzy, +3 crit multiplier, bunch of extra STR)

I'm not sure what's different for you.

With my fighter levels, I was able to squeeze in full 30% haste boost (instead of the measly 15% I have on live), plus +3 to tactics, and extra action boosts.

My guy is definitely better in the new system.

Your 18 barb/2 fighter got a boost because Fighter enhancements are better than Barb enhancements and the low cost splash to powerful enhancements. However pure Barbarians have been nerfed. NONE of their enhancement trees contain STR, so that has been nerfed. Their old enhancement cap of 2 STR and 10% glancing blows is gone replaced with one of the worst enhancements ever (Storm's Eye) period, one that just gives SR, and one that is just a Phantasm Killer spell clicky that consumes your rages to do so. I'm actually curious as to how you got a bunch of extra STR period as fighter splash didn't give you that (though through the better Fighter Enhancements, you did gain better DPS, DCs, Dodge, etc). Though if you take away more Barbarian levels and say go 12 fighter / 6 Barb / 2 Rogue, you only give up Death Frenzy (who's Crit Damage loss can be made up in the fighter tree along with adding crit damage range), your max rage (where Psionic STR makes it even more STR), and Tireless Rage (where clickies and potions have you covered). What you gain is even more DPS, more feats (to be used to increase Tactics and DPS), trap/UMD skills, Evasion, some Sneak Attack damage to bolster DPS on your stunned targets, etc, etc. Could break out a dozen other class splits too.

Barbarians face a double issue - first is the general fact that melees face - capstones can't compete with crossclass. The thing is for Barbs, not only do they face that issue, but their capstones actually suck so bad that there is not one thing you gain by staying pure Barb - you're gimping yourself by doing so. And comparatively with the boosts of enhancements to other classes and barb being behind, most builds I can think of that use Barb are weakened by going over 6 levels... going for 18 Barb works still as you still gain enough at least on the non enhancement side (other than Death Frenzy) that you can flip your finger at the meta game (which I've always held the opinion that how you want to play should always supersede the "best build possible"), but there's still the fact you're picking it because you want to be 18+ Barbarian with no other solid gameplay merits. On Lamina, I TRIED to peak out a pure barb... but when every single enhancement array I could think of left me NOT selecting capstones even in trees I had 40+ points spent in, that screams there is a major issue.



@pawpaw2000 - hmmm. My DPS did seem lower and I could not figure out why. I'm guessing that may be the very reason... but then I haven't tried DPS tests since the last Lam update. I'm going to test that out now.

[Aviya]

Might wanna check out my current build which I think will be boosted even more with new enhancements.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...52#post5068752

[Hawkwier]

Might wanna check out my current build which I think will be boosted even more with new enhancements.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...52#post5068752

PHEW! I read this thread thnking "oh-oh, here we go with yet more barb nerfing", so it was a relief to see your build working so well for you. I'd switched to 18/1/1 b/r/f a while ago to fit in furyshot (too good not to!).

Looks like things might not turn out as bad as I thought after tomorrow then...

[DrawingGuy]

Might wanna check out my current build which I think will be boosted even more with new enhancements.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...52#post5068752

All multi-class builds are getting a massive boost tomorrow. With enhancements having such a cheap splash buy-in and now lvl 1 access to PrE abilities that were previously limited to at least 6 levels of a class, it's a cherry picker's dream. And with Barb now having useless capstone enhancements, you can pick ANY splash and it would be better than a pure barb. As your build is focused on trying to get the biggest 19-20 numbers you can, 18 Barb does hold that candle with Death Frenzy and Wrath crit multipliers. Wouldn't call it the best DPS possible, but it is indeed great burst and can give some pretty numbers.

I will admit that part of my issue with Barb was dated from rage taking off Power Attack and my not noticing - further testing showed my numbers back in line with higher numbers on 19-20 rolls due to the new crit multiplier enhancements. But I'm now faced with the fact that 20 Barb was nerfed with loss of it's proper capstone and splashes buffed so powerfully that I have no choice but to splash if I don't want to take a hit to feats/DPS/DCs/everything. This also doesn't discount the fact that most of the enhancements I think need help in the Barb trees to bring build options out beyond just maxing crit.

[Hawkwier]

Redone my enhancements and am VERY pleasantly surprised by the results!

Far from a nerf I seem to have more HP, heal amp, dodge and bow damage, along with better haste boost and another d6 melee damage to oo. Strength, con, and saves all slightly better too.

More action boosts and +3 to both str and con when I use em.

Seems to be only minor downsides that I can see.

Thanks Turbine!