Tukaw Reborn under The Lord of Blades tutelage

[Failedlegend]

Okay so this is definitely a "first draft" of this build I'm sure I'll have to make a few adjustments but instead of searching the forums and DDO wiki for hours I figured I'd just let you guys point my grievous errors out (Note: Making a Battle Mage is not an error :P)

Stats are a little unsure as the future of TRing Iconics is unknown so for now I'm going to assume 32pt build but it may be a 34pt build (Tr'd from Battle Wiz) or 38pt build (depending on what the final form Epic Reincarnation takes)
So I used Ron's planner and just swapped Cha and Dex (since dex is -2 now and Cha is 0) so feel free to correct me if I did the stats wrong.
Note: I already have an Air Savant so I want to try a different element so I want to make this a Water or Earth Savant...Earth Savant is very tempting simply for the visual effects

Lawful Good Sorc16/Monk2/Paladin2

Level Order: Paladin1, Sorc2, Monk3-4, Paladin 5, Sorc 6 - 20

Str 14
Dex 6
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 6
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

Skills: Concen, UMD , Balance (if 34pt or after +2 tome at Lvl 7)

1 SF: UMD (swap to Quicken later)
3 Maximize
3M Toughness
4M Power Attack
6 Extend
9 Cleave
12 Spell Focus: Conj
15 Great Cleave
18 IC: Slashing
ED Draconic Incarnation
21 Heighten
24 PL: Wiz or GSF: Conj (depending on if TR or not)

[CabooseJTS]

I haven't made many Sorcs (only one in fact, and haven't played her recently), and i tend to stay away from Battle Mages, but to each his own.

Now, as far as the actual build goes:
The stats look good, as well as the skills. My personal preference in terms of which savant would be Water Savant, simply because i like cold spells and then you could have Electricity as a secondary element (without a penalty as with Earth) and have really good Niac's Biting Cold and Eladar's Electric surge DoTs at end game. In terms of just graphical niceness/awesomeness i agree that Earth Savant probably wins in that department.

For the matter of whether to go 16/2/2 or 18/2, i'd personally probably go 16/2/2 just because i like having evasion on any build that *might* have a good enough reflex save fro it to matter. If you went with rogue than you'd also have the trap skills, which could help with solo-ability if you wanted to maintain them, as well as a small boost in melee DPS with sneak attack. Monk would give a boost to saves, although the stances would be a wash since you'd be uncentered. So stick with 18/2 if you want to go with a more "iconic" (pun completely intended) battle-mage, 16/2/2 f you want to add a little bit more survival-ability and possibly some added utility with trap skills.

P.S. i apologize if none of this makes sense or if there are HUGE grammatical/spelling errors, writing this at 2AM because my insomnia decided to turn itself back on.

EDIT: forgot to mention, that with new enhancement pass, may be completely unimportant trying to maintain 2 elements since i believe you are unable to do that AT ALL with sorcs if i remember correctly. Just some food for thought.

[unbongwah]

Isn't Tukaw a melee-focused build? This looks like a typical sorc caster, but with one melee feat (IC:Slash). At the very least, wouldn't you want Power Atk as well (maybe instead of Toughness after Enh pass)?

[Failedlegend]

Isn't Tukaw a melee-focused build? This looks like a typical sorc caster, but with one melee feat (IC:Slash). At the very least, wouldn't you want Power Atk as well (maybe instead of Toughness after Enh pass)?

Actually I'm hoping the E-Pass brings AoTS or Dragon Disiciple (preferably the latter) than I'll just use the handy dandy LR+20 every characters being given to adjust. Characters being designed "oblivious" of the E-Pass.

As for the feats the main issue is that the majority of them are required for the Savant PrE although I could switch out Heighten or GSF/ESF for it but I wouldn't get it until later. It's the main reason I'm debating dipping 2 Monk for the extra feats so I can get some more melee like stuff in there...PA, Cleave, G-Cleave was something I wanted but couldn't really fit...with Monk I do something like this.

Lawful Good Sorc16/Monk2/Paladin2

Level Order: Paladin1, Sorc2, Monk3-4, Paladin 5, Sorc 6 - 20

Str 14
Dex 6
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 6
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

Skills: Concen, UMD , Balance (if 34pt or after +2 tome at Lvl 7)

1 SF: UMD (swap to Quicken later)
3 Maximize
3M Toughness
4M Power Attack
6 Extend
9 Cleave
12 Spell Focus: Conj
15 Great Cleave
18 IC: Slashing
ED Draconic Incarnation
21 Heighten
24 PL: Wiz or GSF: Conj (depending on if TR or not)

[Failedlegend]

Updated build in OP with the build I'm rolling up...may adjust as I go I've decided on Earth Savant mostly for visual looks but also because I already have spellcasters that focus on Water and Air spells and Fire blows.

Post E-Pass I'll likely start taking Repair not sure what skill to drop though.

Other than that I'm still open to any suggestions.

[unbongwah]

1 SF: UMD (swap to Quicken later)

If this is Bladeforged, you won't be able to take Quicken or any other metamagic @ lvl 1. I was thinking Mithril Body or FoP. Which means you'll have to take Quicken later on; maybe instead of Extend?

[Failedlegend]

If this is Bladeforged, you won't be able to take Quicken or any other metamagic @ lvl 1. I was thinking Mithril Body or FoP. Which means you'll have to take Quicken later on; maybe instead of Extend?

Oh I figured Fred would let me swap to quicken since Paladin eventually gets spells (never actually played a Paladin much)...swapping out extend would be a possibility but it would make maintaining spells like Haste and Tenser's a PITA. As for FoP I was actually considering it but every time I stick it in a build everyone says its useless...personally I disagree but if I'm going to take it I usually just stick in something I could easily change (ie. SF:UMD :P)

So yeah I might swap out extend for quicken...actually what I might do is try a few quests w/o quicken on than swap to extend if I deem it unnecessary (honestly I've never used it before so it takes some testing to determine) Alternatively I could take Quicken at Lvl 15 or 18 and shift everything down one slot because if IIRC we get another "normal" Epic feat at lvl 27.

Oh and as for Mithral Body...is it 15% ASF or 20% ASF (base ASF of 5% + 15%?) also does it scale with level like armor does now? (ie. Leather = Skirmish -> Feycraft -> Spritcraft -> Celestial)

[unbongwah]

Oh I figured Fred would let me swap to quicken since Paladin eventually gets spells (never actually played a Paladin much)

Fred won't let you swap in a feat you couldn't take as part of the regular leveling process; the one caveat being tomes apply retroactively, but that doesn't affect a lvl 1 feat. [Sometimes Fred is bugged and lets you do things you're not supposed to do - bad mindflayer! - but that doesn't make it WAI.]

As for FoP I was actually considering it but every time I stick it in a build everyone says its useless...

I like FoP on any high-CHA low-WIS build like a sorc; it's just usually there are better feats to take, like another metamagic. Plus WF are naturally immune to sleep, hold, etc. which are some of the major Will-based effects. But this build doesn't have a lot of other options for lvl 1...

Oh and as for Mithral Body...is it 15% ASF or 20% ASF (base ASF of 5% + 15%?) also does it scale with level like armor does now? (ie. Leather = Skirmish -> Feycraft -> Spritcraft -> Celestial)

MB is 15% ASF, same as mithril breastplate; it doesn't stack w/Composite Plating. The AC does scale w/level - it's based on the docent, IIRC - but the MDB doesn't automatically increase, unfortunately, unless they fixed that in U19. Still, some AC + PRR doesn't suck, I would think; and with Mobility + Greater Nimbleness you could get the MDB up to 9 if you really wanted. I happened to pull a Sapphire of Spell Agility +10 (ML:16) recently; that + Inscribed Armor I for 1 AP gets you down to 0% ASF, which is what got me to thinking about this idea over the weekend.

[Failedlegend]

Fred won't let you swap in a feat you couldn't take as part of the regular leveling process; the one caveat being tomes apply retroactively, but that doesn't affect a lvl 1 feat. [Sometimes Fred is bugged and lets you do things you're not supposed to do - bad mindflayer! - but that doesn't make it WAI.]

Oh I know that I just thought a Paladin would count as a spellcaster when it came to metas...guess not

I like FoP on any high-CHA low-WIS build like a sorc; it's just usually there are better feats to take, like another metamagic. Plus WF are naturally immune to sleep, hold, etc. which are some of the major Will-based effects. But this build doesn't have a lot of other options for lvl 1...

MB is 15% ASF, same as mithril breastplate; it doesn't stack w/Composite Plating. The AC does scale w/level - it's based on the docent, IIRC - but the MDB doesn't automatically increase, unfortunately, unless they fixed that in U19. Still, some AC + PRR doesn't suck, I would think; and with Mobility + Greater Nimbleness you could get the MDB up to 9 if you really wanted.

Hmmm...If they didn't update it I'd rather go with FoP...especially since IIRC WF are only "resistant" to effects now instead of immune I'd assume that includes Bladeforged

I happened to pull a Sapphire of Spell Agility +10 (ML:16) recently; that + Inscribed Armor I for 1 AP gets you down to 0% ASF, which is what got me to thinking about this idea over the weekend.

Oh nice find...I'll stick with FoP for now until they fix the Body feats (which really should be a choice at lvl 1 not require a feat...should also include "Crystal Body" for 0% ASF but like a -5% AC penalty)

As for the motivation whilst me and my friend are planning to TR into these builds (Sorc16/Monk2/Pally2 & Arty16/Pally2/Rogue2) we wanted to try the out before doing so epsecially since TR isn't avail yet. Were also gonna try out the other Iconics (I won't be playing Shadar-Kai in our duo...I'll be soloing one though)

Shadar-Kai - Assassin 20 (similar to my solo one) and some mix of Rogue w/ Ranger, Fighter and/or Monk to try to make an effective Master Thrower Halfling build...shurikens if Monk likely Throwing daggers/TWF Dagger mix if Ranger. This is a double test and we will be testing the new changes to the sneaking/AI systems


Purple Dragon Knight - A S&B DoS Paladin18/PDK2 and a THF Bard16/Rogue2/PDK2 (mix of WC/SS but primarily SS as I don't really like the cold focused stuff, rage reliant in WC and PDK already gets rallying cry)

Morninglord - A Mace & Board/Maul Cleric18/Fighter 2 and some abomination of Palemaster w/ a splash of cleric partly to unlock the Heal skill as well as to try to find a use for the +2 Int that the Elven Iconic Cleric is given (Am I the only one who never things :Elf" when someone says Iconic Cleric...Humans, Dwarfs, Aasimar, Female Drow come to mind but not elf..Aasimar would of course fit the theme of iconics AND clerics best imo which is unique versions of existing races that is somehow "iconic" in that class.)

I'll be playing the Halfling Thrower, the Undead Lord Cleric and the PDK Bard...I'm going to be posting the Wizard build later once I figure out a good split to start with right now I'm thinking..Wiz15/Cleric5, Wiz15/Cleric3/Monk2 or Wiz18/Cleric2 or Wiz18/Cleric1/Monk1 or Wiz18/Cleric1/Rogue1...you get the idea :P

[unbongwah]

Oh I know that I just thought a Paladin would count as a spellcaster when it came to metas...guess not

They do...just not at lvl 1. Fred doesn't let you retroactively apply spellcasting ability thru feat-swapping...well, he's not supposed to, at any rate.

Morninglord - A Mace & Board/Maul Cleric18/Fighter 2 and some abomination of Palemaster w/ a splash of cleric partly to unlock the Heal skill as well as to try to find a use for the +2 Int that the Elven Iconic Cleric is given (Am I the only one who never things :Elf" when someone says Iconic Cleric...Humans, Dwarfs, Aasimar, Female Drow come to mind but not elf..Aasimar would of course fit the theme of iconics AND clerics best imo which is unique versions of existing races that is somehow "iconic" in that class.)

Morninglords feel like the odd man out among Iconics. Pairing an INT-based race with a WIS-based caster? +dmg w/blunt weapons? And did we really need a fourth "-elf" race? As you say, Aasimar would've been a more interesting choice; and since they look mostly-human, it wouldn't've taken much effort to add them to DDO.

[Hirosue]

Just noticed your post. Did you roll your sorc up? I ran a so called TUKAW build a few years ago and recently revisited the idea going sorc 16/2 pal/2 monk. It’s a fun build and the changes made to Tensors spell means no more divine power clickies from the old "Tukaw" days.

A few thoughts. Take cleave and great cleave early. They make a huge increase to melee damage, especially at low and mid levels. It took me a few attempts to get the level progression sorted out with regards to feat selection. Last life (HOrc FVS) I zerged to 20 this life I did every quest once on elite and can say that this build works very well all the way to 20. In many quests it demolishes the content.. It’s a fun build and essentially gives up Tukaw trap skills for cleave and great cleave. Currently at level 22. Going to see what the enhancement pass does to it before I TR, assuming I stay.

At level 15 i took empower spell feat and not IC slashing as i was using mineral 2 greensteel

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(2 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 337
Spell Points: 1626 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 15
Will: 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity             9                    12
Constitution         18                    24
Intelligence          8                    12
Wisdom                8                    12
Charisma             15                    21

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     1
Bluff                 2                     5
Concentration         4                     8
Diplomacy             2                     5
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     5
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                 -1                     1
Intimidate            2                     5
Jump                  3                     7
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently        -1                     1
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                 -1                     1
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble               n/a                    n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Sorcerer)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Sorcerer)


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Sorcerer)


Level 11 (Sorcerer)


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Sorcerer)


Level 14 (Sorcerer)


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Sorcerer)


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Sorcerer)


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I
Enhancement: Deadly Ice II
Enhancement: Deadly Ice III
Enhancement: Deadly Ice IV
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation I
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation II
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation III
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation IV
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation V
Enhancement: Repair Manipulation VI
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude I

[Failedlegend]

I learned to love C/GC (Whirlwind attack is pretty badass too but the feat reqs are steep) when I respecced my Battle Wiz a few months back and if its comes down to a choice they almost always trump the THF line (both is better of course). As for taking it earlier most of the other feats are pre-reqs although I am considering delaying (maybe even dropping) toughness and shifting them back that way.

Still waiting on Iconic TR for this though (also waiting to see if they've changed Epic TR)

[voodoogroves]

I learned to love C/GC (Whirlwind attack is pretty badass too but the feat reqs are steep) when I respecced my Battle Wiz a few months back and if its comes down to a choice they almost always trump the THF line (both is better of course). As for taking it earlier most of the other feats are pre-reqs although I am considering delaying (maybe even dropping) toughness and shifting them back that way.

Still waiting on Iconic TR for this though (also waiting to see if they've changed Epic TR)

I personally would go 14/4 pal/2 or 12/4/4 with the enhancement pass on a melee sorc. Levels in str, use sticks on the one with 4 monk.

But ... That is me. Are you a melee with stuff, or a caster who trades for resiliency?

[Failedlegend]

I personally would go 14/4 pal/2 or 12/4/4 with the enhancement pass on a melee sorc. Levels in str, use sticks on the one with 4 monk.

But ... That is me. Are you a melee with stuff, or a caster who trades for resiliency?

The idea is to get as much as possible of both since PDK allows for you to mainline Charisma you DCs shouldn't be to bad for spellcasting Sorc 16 only putting you 1 spell level behind but it definitely leans further to Melee with extra stuff.

What are your reasons for going 4Pally/2PDK or 4PDK/4Monk as opposed to 2/2 of either, just curious.

[voodoogroves]

The idea is to get as much as possible of both since PDK allows for you to mainline Charisma you DCs shouldn't be to bad for spellcasting Sorc 16 only putting you 1 spell level behind but it definitely leans further to Melee with extra stuff.

Short version - I've run a Tukaw. ?*He was fun. ?*EVEN THEN you had serious problems with a choice on your path. ?*Sorc SLAs put out reasonable DPS, but I really thing builds need to decide what they are good at and play to that.

You won't have great DCs unless you build for it - and that isn't just that one from heighten. It's gearing, etc.

Beyond that, there is an opportunity cost to the "how" of your playing something like this. Do you cast a spell or swing? Are you better than a hireling at either, given you're trying to do both? A melee build will want Extend, PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Crit, Quicken. Some of that you can cover w/ Monk feats but that still doesn't leave much room. Heighten and Maximize? Any spell pen? If you're just doing it for damage spells, pick the ones with no save and no SR and save feats all around.

You end up being not very good at both if you're not careful ... but, mind this ... you can probably make a ham sandwich and bravery bonus streak to 20 if you know what you're doing. That can be fun (I have a half-orc melee PM ...) but you should recognize if this is a fun or effective bulid.

What are your reasons for going 4Pally/2PDK or 4PDK/4Monk as opposed to 2/2 of either, just curious.

Confused on PDK there. I'm talking something like 12 sorc / 4 pally / 4 monk or 12 sorc / 2 pally / 6 monk.

A Bladeforged 12 sorc can take Tensers as their 6th level spell and use the Recon SLA. 6 monk gets you expanded crit for q-staves plus sets you up for grandmaster feats (earth stance). Pal 2 enables Divine Might, but you won't get Turn Undead until you can snag it from Unyielding Sentinel. 6 monk also gets you henshen as your T5 - so you should push force and fire as well for your damage options (wall of fire, scorching ray are solid options).

Monk feats: PA and then maybe dodge/mobility
Normal: Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Crit, Quicken, Extend, Maximize + monk stances (you'll have to offload some until epic levels) ... and of course Overwhelming Crit

Henshin T5 (crit expansion) + the staff kickers. STR if you can from Fire Savant and Henshin trees. Divine Might (ultimately) from Pally. You'll want to twist Dance of Flowers and Turn Undead minimally. You've got options on whatever destiny you want to be in (GMOF, LD, Fury ... whatever).

STR could be (say) 16 + 7 levels + 2 boat + 3 tome + 4 tensers + 2 rage + 10 divine might + 10 items + 2 monk + 2 sorc ... what is that? 60 pretty easily?

[voodoogroves]

Incidentially, if you want to make a DC-capable splashed build look at Earth Savant, Heighten, Flesh to Stone.

[Failedlegend]

Hmmm... I didn't think of going deeper...a Henshin/Fire Savant mix would be interesting although Fire is often extremely limiting in a large chunk of content so would definitely need to sub a different element....too bad there's no Force savant that would be great so little is immune to Force damage and it would be nice to play a character that isn't crippled by undead for once (see PM Wiztank and A handful of rogues :P)

Actually why ISN'T there a force savant?? It would have been quite easy to just copy and paste another Savant...oh well maybe we'll get one next update along with w/e the NEW Sorc PrE is. (IF the "NEW" Sorc PrE IS Force savant though I'm gonna smack someone though)

Has anyone had a chance to test out the Henshin abilities?

Oh and PDK = Cha to attack/damage


Hmmm...wait I'm thinking of Making a Sorc/Monk build heh...perfect to make a "Mario" build too bad its not gonna be unarmed

So far looking at this a FireSavant/Henshin Mystic would be pretty cool but of course being fire focused brings forth ALOT of issues....I really wish there was a Force Savanat than this build would be much better off...I should probably start a new thread for this though since it would be in a much different direction