Is defensive Strikes still brokenly OP?

[Bridge_Dweller]

Does it still give more defense than all of stalwart defender?

Does it still have no offensive penalties for THFing?

[flipstre]

Please don't nerf it. Otherwise I willhave to find another build. My12 monk 8 kensei will no longer be able to hit 109+ prr

[serthcore]

Its gone, they replaced it with +5/10/15% doublestrikes if unarmed/twf.

That hurts my greataxe kensei, my monkcher and my acrobat, but i was seeing that coming :/

[Teh_Troll]

Please don't nerf it. Otherwise I willhave to find another build. My12 monk 8 kensei will no longer be able to hit 109+ prr

Nor should you be able to hit 109 PRR on such a build.

[Teh_Troll]

Its gone, they replaced it with +5/10/15% doublestrikes if unarmed/twf.

That hurts my greataxe kensei, my monkcher and my acrobat, but i was seeing that coming :/

From the release notes:

NEW Defensive Strikes has been removed. It has been replaced with "Deft Strikes" - a passive ability which increases offhand attack proc chance.

NEW Enhancements in the Shintao Monk tree which formerly improved Defensive Strikes Stance now improve Earth Stance.

What does improved Earth-Stance give?

[serthcore]

From the release notes:

NEW Defensive Strikes has been removed. It has been replaced with "Deft Strikes" - a passive ability which increases offhand attack proc chance.

NEW Enhancements in the Shintao Monk tree which formerly improved Defensive Strikes Stance now improve Earth Stance.

What does improved Earth-Stance give?

+5/+10/+15 PRR like it did before with Defensive strikes

[Teh_Troll]

+5/+10/+15 PRR like it did before with Defensive strikes

With an increase cost of 2 AP a tier. Doesn't look OP at all, heck might even be balanced.

[CoasterHops]

I like this change, it needed to happen, we are still going to have Weaponised Kensai monks popping up but it means that not everyone will be gravitating towards the Greatsword/Greataxe wielding Centred Kensai with 100+ PRR and max dodge that was just going to be too juicy for people not to make.

Better to change it now than to nerf it after it goes live, very sensible and to add to that it appears they even gave some balanced changes.

[Atremus]

I like this change, it needed to happen, we are still going to have Weaponised Kensai monks popping up but it means that not everyone will be gravitating towards the Greatsword/Greataxe wielding Centred Kensai with 100+ PRR and max dodge that was just going to be too juicy for people not to make.

Better to change it now than to nerf it after it goes live, very sensible and to add to that it appears they even gave some balanced changes.

I really, really like Daft Strikes. This will be huge while leveling up and can easily take the place of that Epic Feat (Perfect TWF?) so you can now squeeze in something else.

I play tested a bit with my monk tonight and was very happy.

[Delacroix21]

With an increase cost of 2 AP a tier. Doesn't look OP at all, heck might even be balanced.

I wouldn't call a monk tank with 17% less HP, at least 30-40 less PRR, and 50% less ac then a fight/paladin tank balanced myself. Evasion doesn't make up for that, no to mention a fighter 14/2monk/4paladin has high saves, evasion in light armor with a tower shield, +95% ac from armor, +195% ac from tower shield, and charisma bonus to strength for decent hitting ability.

[Teh_Troll]

I wouldn't call a monk tank with 17% less HP, at least 30-40 less PRR, and 50% less ac then a fight/paladin tank balanced myself. Evasion doesn't make up for that, no to mention a fighter 14/2monk/4paladin has high saves, evasion in light armor with a tower shield, +95% ac from armor, +195% ac from tower shield, and charisma bonus to strength for decent hitting ability.

Why should monks even be tanks in the first place? Seriuously, this was never explained why a monk should be any "tankier" than a ranger/rogue/bard. You're in pajamas for pete's sake, maybe you just need a nap.

And you're wrong about evasion not being worth it. The most dangerous stuff in the game at this time is evadable and IMPROVED EVASION is amazing for that.

[Delacroix21]

As i said, a tank with a tower shield can have evasion, and now a 40% chance to avoid elemental damage on top of that with the new feats! As for monks being tanks, my monk often tanks. I am a dps class but sadly in raids far to many fighters and paladins go unyielding sentinel for extra hp, or LD for action boosts (they won't be blitzed in raids like CiTW or FoT) and the rest are fury, yielding low dps and an inability to hold agro. Meanwhile I am a pure 20 monk in primal avatar outdpsing 4 other Meeles combined in tree form.


If Shintao isn't a tanking tree (not much here to make it one) then what is it? As i see it, it is a fairly weak tree with a few abilities only useable on a select few mobs in the game. It needs more focus.


The tree SHOULD be the unarmed tree, as we allready have a TWF tree (I call it the shuriken tree myself ), and a staff tree. The only thing it has (aside from the new TWF bit) for unarmed is the 1d6 o 1d8. I would like to see a boost in crit range and/or multiplier though. I would also like to see kukan-do changed to wisdom as well, I am sure WoTC would be ok with that.

[Veriden]

Why should monks even be tanks in the first place? Seriuously, this was never explained why a monk should be any "tankier" than a ranger/rogue/bard. You're in pajamas for pete's sake, maybe you just need a nap.

And you're wrong about evasion not being worth it. The most dangerous stuff in the game at this time is evadable and IMPROVED EVASION is amazing for that.

You, like a lot of people forget. Magically enchanted robes give an 'armor' bonus b/c the nature of the magic. If you're wearing robes with +8 armor bonus, it means your clothing is enchanted to be treated like full plate mail like protection without the restrictive nature of armor. It is described as a tangible force in the books. So I would take my stylish full plate mail enchanted clothing over heavier chunkier armor. You can't apply logic and real world mechanics to a video game, let a lone one with heavy magical influence.

thus I am still of the opinion of robes/out fits should provide some prr pending the bonus to armor enchantment...to the extent of fighter/paladins? No, but still base formula for determining prr. 1-4 = light armor, 5-7 medium armor, 8+ heavy armor.

[Wipey]

Meanwhile I am a pure 20 monk in primal avatar outdpsing 4 other Meeles combined in tree form.
.

You are right. Stalwart in sentinel, stand against the tide, dual boosted, triple pos hammer, 50 + str, PA on, 10 + 15 % incite, 90 intim, and Intolerant blows can't hold Truthful One aggro against tree exploit. Enjoy for next 3 weeks, but I don't see what are you trying to say here.
Against any other monk in Earth, one intim, dual boost, Intolerant blows, auto attack on and go make a sammich

[HastyPudding]

I was so looking forward to making my shintao ocean stance stunbot with good defenses. So, now they're going to make it almost mandatory to have earth stance active to utilize the 'goodies' of shintao because some people decided to exploit it with THF? Way to pigeon-hole classes, Turbine...

[Delacroix21]

You are right. Stalwart in sentinel, stand against the tide, dual boosted, triple pos hammer, 50 + str, PA on, 10 + 15 % incite, 90 intim, and Intolerant blows can't hold Truthful One aggro against tree exploit. Enjoy for next 3 weeks, but I don't see what are you trying to say here.
Against any other monk in Earth, one intim, dual boost, Intolerant blows, auto attack on and go make a sammich

This is the real problem though, threat comes from dps, and tanks with shields just don't put out enough.


I suppose in a way it does make ddo more realistic than other mmos, because why would the dragon focus on the bozo with a shield barely scratching him and ignore the barbarian with a great axe cutting deep into his back?


I think ddo shouldn't try to copy other mmos unrealistic tanking system, but should keep things the way they are (maybe increase sword and board dps somewhat). I think "tanking" should come from more physically blocking the monster from getting past to your caster. Things like dragons etc. shouldn't be "tanked" at all, as it feels silly to beat on a dragons back while it ignore the 8 of you and instead focuses on somebody calling it names over and over.

[Teh_Troll]

You, like a lot of people forget. Magically enchanted robes give an 'armor' bonus b/c the nature of the magic. If you're wearing robes with +8 armor bonus, it means your clothing is enchanted to be treated like full plate mail like protection without the restrictive nature of armor. It is described as a tangible force in the books. So I would take my stylish full plate mail enchanted clothing over heavier chunkier armor. You can't apply logic and real world mechanics to a video game, let a lone one with heavy magical influence.

Don't care, I already lost this argument a year ago when we switched away from Armor Class to this silly hybrid system.

And you absolutely can apply RL stuff to this. Sure the robe may be magic but so is the armor. if you think a Magic Robe would protect the same or better than Magic Armor you're not playing with a full deck.

thus I am still of the opinion of robes/out fits should provide some prr pending the bonus to armor enchantment...to the extent of fighter/paladins? No, but still base formula for determining prr. 1-4 = light armor, 5-7 medium armor, 8+ heavy armor.

Your Armor and Shield values should add to PRR. Perhaps natural as well.

[Teh_Troll]

This is the real problem though, threat comes from dps, and tanks with shields just don't put out enough.

No, the issue is Treetards are BROKEN and not WAI let's not mince words here. S&B threat is fine in every other circumstance.

[Ironclans_evil_twin]

Someone tell me what "tree form" is? A WF druid/monk in earth stance?

[Teh_Troll]

Someone tell me what "tree form" is? A WF druid/monk in earth stance?

Primal Avatar's epic moment. it's getting fixed (I'm not gonna say nerfed) on monday. Right now with twitch fighting the damage is insane.