XP for Heroic quests need to be improved

[oradafu]

The XP found in the Heroic quests continues to be the low XP that the Devs have given us. I would expect that the XP would be better than what the current "placeholders" are for two reasons.

Firstly, the Devs are pushing awfully hard to skip Eberron content and go directly into Forgotten Realms. You can see this with the creation of the new Iconic Heroes. It also seems to stem from many newer players and some older players that prefer Forgotten Realm's traditional fantasy over Eberron's post-apocalyptic steampunk fantasy.

Secondly, since these quests are part of an Expansion, there should be something "special" about the expansion. I've mentioned elsewhere that there doesn't seem to be anything noteworthy in this expansion so far. The loot is absolutely horrible, as can be attested by every comment about the loot. There's no raid. I've mentioned elsewhere the lack of a new campaign setting and the underused and/or unused new environmental effects that were presented in Shadow of a Doubt. So that pretty much leaves that the XP should be the standout point of the Expansion, which costs more than a regular adventure pack and also treat differently than an adventure pack.

These are the numbers currently for the XP in the Heroic quests:
* 1670/3016/3133/3250 - The Thrill of the Hunt
* 2308/4173/4336/4499 - Army of Shadow
* 2452/4433/4606/4780 - A Lesson in Deception
* 3169/5733/5958/6184 - Friends in Low Places
* 3408/6166/6409/6652 - Through a Mirror Darkly

These numbers should really be closer to the numbers found in the flagging quest in the Vale, in my opinion. The XP in the Elite flagging quests in the Vale are between 7299 XP and 10,036 XP. Vale also contains multiple wilderness maps, 3 raids and a crafting system that is still viable. Buying Vale from the DDOStore is 850 TP, while the basic pack for Shadowfell will cost 2495 TP.

Now out of all these quests, I think Through a Mirror Darkly has the strongest argument for needing more XP. Besides having a confusing map that might lead to players continually backtracking through the same areas trying to find the orbs, the new mechanic alone justifies an increase in XP. The optional boss (if no one in the party has instant kill) and the end boss can extend the quest much longer than is needed, especially if soloing. The quest is sort of a combination of Inferno and Shadow Crypt with an extended end fight. I also foresee this quest not being very popular with many people (even though I personally think it's the best quest so far in the expansion). For all these reasons, I don't think it's unreasonable that Through the Mirror Darkly should have heroic XP similar to Coalescence Chamber (5359/9300/9688/10,036) or Shadow Crypt (5568/9820/10,360/10,900).

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(Update)

Stormhorn quests appear to have Heroic options also. The Heroic quests are level 19, so the Hard difficulty is level 20 and Elite difficulty is level 21. So once again, these quests are competing with Epic XP at level.

The following are the XP amounts in the Stormhorn quests on Heroic, for the quests that I've been able to find so far:
* 1984/3553/3676/3800 - Breaking the Ranks
* 2295/4113/4256/4400 - The Tracker's Trap
* 2348/4206/4353/4500 - Lines of Supply
* 3737/6700/6936/7172 - A Break in the Ice

[patang01]

That's horrid. Considering that the quests are asymmetrical they take slightly longer. Why on earth would I want to run these on heroic? Let alone epic with that XP?

[oradafu]

That's horrid. Considering that the quests are asymmetrical they take slightly longer. Why on earth would I want to run these on heroic? Let alone epic with that XP?

I actually have no problem with the Epic XP. I didn't write down how much the Epic XP was per quest, but the XP appeared to be on par with other Epic quests.

It was just the Heroic quests are anemic when it comes to XP, which has been the case for Heroic XP for a very long time.

[soloist12]

I actually have no problem with the Epic XP. I didn't write down how much the Epic XP was per quest, but the XP appeared to be on par with other Epic quests.

It was just the Heroic quests are anemic when it comes to XP, which has been the case for Heroic XP for a very long time.

Agree completely. Proof: how many TRs run amrath/cannith packs during a life?

[stoopid_cowboy]

Agree completely. Proof: how many TRs run amrath/cannith packs during a life?

Exactly!
The last thing we need are a whole new group of "Once and Done" quests! We already have far too many of those. Make the XP worth doing the quests more than once!
Amd while you are at it, please fix the House C quests (all of them) and Shav quest XP

[slarden]

I never run the House C quests any more. I like them, but the XP is so bad I usually squeeze them out.

[oradafu]

Updated the OP with some of the Stormhorn quests. I'll add others as I find them.

Stormhorn quests appear to have Heroic options also. The Heroic quests are level 19, so the Hard difficulty is level 20 and Elite difficulty is level 21. So once again, these quests are competing with Epic XP at level.

[LupusVai]

Don't expect them to improve these numbers either.

No doubt we'll get the "oh don't worry these silly low exp numbers are just placeholders" story again and then surprise, surprise goes live with the same abysmal exp. Why they don't just cut the **** and at least be honest and say we're making the new quests exp bad to encourage exp pot sales.

[oradafu]

Don't expect them to improve these numbers either.

No doubt we'll get the "oh don't worry these silly low exp numbers are just placeholders" story again and then surprise, surprise goes live with the same abysmal exp. Why they don't just cut the **** and at least be honest and say we're making the new quests exp bad to encourage exp pot sales.

I don't expect the numbers to improve. I haven't even heard the "placeholder" excuse this time around.

Again, it's pretty sad that the Expansion has failed on all fronts. It doesn't have great or even good XP on the Heroic side and the Epic XP is just on par with other Epics. The named items are a complete fail that doesn't seem to cover 1/5th of the various builds in the game. From the quests that I've played, only two or three seem "special" and the rest could be tacked onto any pack. So far the best feature of the paid Expansion is the Stormhorn Wilderness, but then you have to pay even more real world money to take shortcuts.

There's nothing in the actual expansion that's not going to be available either for free (level cap increase and enhancement pass) or for a separate cost (Iconics) that makes the Expansion worth its value. It's actually subpar a regular pack, as my comparison to Vale shows.

[oradafu]

Just checked the Heroic XP for a couple, not all of the quests, and the numbers haven't moved. So it looks like once again the "placeholder" numbers will be the live numbers.

[ZzpxpzZ]

Don't expect them to improve these numbers either.

No doubt we'll get the "oh don't worry these silly low exp numbers are just placeholders" story again and then surprise, surprise goes live with the same abysmal exp. Why they don't just cut the **** and at least be honest and say we're making the new quests exp bad to encourage exp pot sales.

There is no point in taking the conspiracy theory that far, its too ridiculous.

Terrible experience on new quests doesnt encourage XP pots because what is a good experience amount in a quest is relative to other quests, bad XP will be bad XP with or without XP pots.

What they are trying to do is make people play old content... I have no idea why, perhaps they just do not have any confidence in their new content or something.

It is definitely still a joke but it has nothing to do with encouraging pot sales for sure.

[redspecter23]

I agree that poor xp in quests should not promote xp pot sales. I use xp pots on quests that are already good xp/min to increase that. On bad xp/min quests one of two things happens. I either "waste" my xp pot while I'm in there earning less xp than I could elsewhere or I skip the content and save it for when my xp pot wears off and before I chug another one so that, again, I don't waste my time/money on the low xp/min in that content.

I think that the problem lies in the timer on the xp pot as well as the low xp in the quest. The xp pot timer encourages a certain playstyle of zerg and max xp/min to maximize the effectiveness of the pot. Whether or not this effects any particular person isn't as important as the fact that the practice is encouraged by the nature of the pot.

With that out of the way, I'd say we're more likely to see a nerf on older high xp quests as a balancing factor before new quests are raised. The Turbine excuse will be that the xp curve is being flattened to lower xp in some high level quests will be justified (from their perspective) but of course this doesn't change the fact that a level 19 quest is much lower xp/min than a level 7/8/9 quest and not just a few, but a large number of quests.

[mikarddo]

/signed

Releasing new quests with sub-par xp is not a good idea. Please reconsider and fast.