Help with Bard 12/Barb 6/Rogue 2 :)

[Istaria1]

Hi all,

First off, sorry that I haven't planned this out in the character planner - I'm at work and I can't install it here. The idea is basically a THF Warchanter with Barb Frenzied Berzerker, and Rogue evasion and trapsmithing.

Rogue 2 - gives evasion
Bard 12 - gives Inspire Greatness, Haste, Displacement, Good Hope, Cure Serious, Cure Critical, Dimension Door/Freedom of Movement, Song of Heroism (Warchanter II)
Barb 6 - gives Rage, Frenzy

Feats (not in order, and human bonus feat is assumed):
Toughness
Power Attack (Pre-req for Warchanter)
Weapon Focus: Slashing (Pre-req for Warchanter)
Cleave (Pre-req for Frenzied Berzerker)
THF
iTHF
iCrit: Slashing
(unsure) Extend (longer Haste/Displacement) / gTHF ?

BAB at 20 will be +16 base.

Obviously level 1 will be Rogue, but it's there that I start to get uncertain. I'm very unsure of what class to take at what levels, but I think the second rogue level would be reasonably late, and that most Bard levels would be taken soon-ish, with Barb being the lowest priority.

As the bard end of things is really only for self-buffing and self-heals, Cha does not need to be particularly high, and I would plan on using tomes at level 7 (and probably an Int +1 at level 3). Str would be the main stat, with a some way decent Int, a reasonable Dex, and the rest in Con. Wis is the dump stat.

Before I get home and start trying to squeeze all this into a character build in the planner, does anyone have any advice? I realise this character is trying to do alot, and I'm seriously feat starved, but I like the idea of it

EDIT: On reflection, I am now leaning more towards Bard 12/Barb 6/Rogue 2, to get the benefits of Warchanter 2. This may lower BAB slightly (by 1 I think), but the gains are pretty big.

Thanks!

Ist.

[cru121]

drop THF. get great cleave. Extend is good, also consider empower healing. I've played some barb-splashed bards and/or rangers and barbarian rage is really situational only. unless you really trust your healer or play with a hireling, you won't use it much.

First level of barb fairly early for proficiencies and nice HP. Note 11th bard level would get you CCW; 12th gets you +10 HP from warchanter.

consider also that new enhancements are planned in a month. This can affect your choices maybe.
http://ddowiki.com/page/In_development/Enhancements

[Istaria1]

Hmmm...that's actually not a bad idea. If I did that I could drop iTHF also, which frees up a feat.

EDIT: Starting stats:

Str - 16
Dex - 12
Con - 16
Int - 12
Wis - 8
Cha - 12

So let's say:

1 - Rogue - Toughness
1 - (Human) - Power Attack
2 - Bard
3 - Barb - WF: Slash
4 - Barb
5 - Bard
6 - Bard - Cleave
7 - Bard
8 - Bard
9 - Rogue - Extend [Evasion, yay!]
10 - Bard (Warchanter I)
11 - Bard
12 - Bard - Great Cleave
13 - Barb
14 - Barb
15 - Barb - iCrit: Slash
16 - Barb (Frenzied Berzerker I)
17 - Bard
18 - Bard - [Feat?]
19 - Bard
20 - Bard (Warchanter II)

This would be mostly a solo build, but have some usefulness in a party. Also, I'll be playing him on a new server, which means that I am starting with 0 plat, 0 tomes, and 0 crafting :P I'm not too worried about that though, should be able to grab any important +2 tomes by 7. Should be OK for self-healing, particularly if I take Empower. I'm not too sure where I would put it, but there's room.

Am I making any really obvious screwups here?

Ist.

PS: WRT the new enhancements, I'm not sure they'll really make a huge difference to the basic idea of the character,so I haven't really taken them very much into account.

[cru121]

Weapon Focus is your least useful feat, take it as late as possible - i.e. at level 9. I'd take Power Attack and Cleave at lvl 1. Rest looks okayish.

[marinerfan]

Hmmm...that's actually not a bad idea. If I did that I could drop iTHF also, which frees up a feat.

EDIT: Starting stats:

Str - 16
Dex - 12
Con - 16
Int - 12
Wis - 8
Cha - 12

This would be mostly a solo build, but have some usefulness in a party.

A couple comments
1) I love bard splash builds, I think they are the best build if you want to be pretty good at lots of stuff.

2) Maybe consider making dex a dump stat as well..hear me out, if you cranked up int a bit higher, you could use a feat for insightful reflexes (int to reflex save)..it could make your evasion better and you'd have more skill points for trap skills, UMD, perform, and concentration (maybe some open lock, jump and balance, too), which I'm assuming you want all of these.

3) bard/barb can be a good cross, but keep in mind you can't cast anything while raged...this will hurt if you truly plan to solo (as opposed to keeping a nannybot with you), or if you're in a group where things go badly and you need to use scrolls to rez people, or heal, or whatever else. I am currently playing a barbarian trapper (12 barb/6 ranger/2 rogue) and while raging is fun, it's a huge pain to have to dismiss it whenever I need to find/disable a trap or bail out a team member who got in over their heads...

3.5) Along with that, at 6 barbarian levels I'm not so sure the dps/hp gain from raging is even all that worth it when giving up self-healing

4) I agree with cru, get cleave/great cleave as early as possible, use it, love it.



One last comment, are you for sure set on this level split? I'd almost suggest you go 12 bard/6 ranger/2 rogue..I think your saves will be better, you'll have more skill points to spend, and 6 ranger gives you quite a bit of nice stuff (no guarantees this will be the case after enh pass)...you'd get manyshot, TWF/iTWF, sprint boost, ram's might/longstrider. I made this build a couple years ago and it was a lot of fun. The tempest tier I prestige has taken some nerfing since then but still a respectable build capable of ok dps, good burst dps with manyshot, great trapping, backup heals, very solid saves with little effort (I think all 3 categories are well above 40 with just a +5 resistance item). You would probably lose some dps if you went this way, but possibly gain some survivability/utility.

[Istaria1]

Hi, and thanks for the comments

To answer your question, I'm not in any way set on this level split. I like the idea of ranger instead of barb, and having tested this build to level 6, I am already running into the casting problem, so I may well remake using ranger instead. The main reason I went with barb was because I had an idea of THF instead of TWF in my mind - that's not a deal-breaker though.

Dex as a dump stat is not something I had really thought about - isn't it a pre-req for certain feats? And also trying to shoehorn in IR mightn't be easy :/ Especially given the pre-reqs for Tempest I.

As it stands at the moment, the build is pretty fun, just messing about at low levels, and as cru pointed out, Rage is kinda situational - I'm already learning whn it's best to not use it.

Ist.

[marinerfan]

Hi, and thanks for the comments

To answer your question, I'm not in any way set on this level split. I like the idea of ranger instead of barb, and having tested this build to level 6, I am already running into the casting problem, so I may well remake using ranger instead. The main reason I went with barb was because I had an idea of THF instead of TWF in my mind - that's not a deal-breaker though.

Dex as a dump stat is not something I had really thought about - isn't it a pre-req for certain feats? And also trying to shoehorn in IR mightn't be easy :/ Especially given the pre-reqs for Tempest I.

As it stands at the moment, the build is pretty fun, just messing about at low levels, and as cru pointed out, Rage is kinda situational - I'm already learning whn it's best to not use it.

Ist.

The nice thing about ranger is a lot of feats are given for free, regardless of what your dex is you'll still get TWF and iTWF, but you wouldn't be able to get the next tier of TWF (greater 2wf?), which would really stink.

I more meant the dump dex idea on the barbarian build...I think if you went with ranger, you'd be better off keeping your dex a bit higher because you'll want to use your bow when manyshot is ready...and honestly with tempest not being as good as it once was, it may be worth it to just not take a ranger prestige and use the feats elsewhere.

One other possible build you may want to consider is 16 bard/2 fighter (or barb..i prefer fighter)/2 rogue. You'll get a few more nice songs, a bit more healing/sp pool, feats from fighter, evasion from rogue. I think this build would be closer to your initial idea, but without the annoying rage dilemma. And on this build, I'd definitely suggest considering dumping dex and upping int because you'd have some extra feats from fighter to play with.

My wife made this build as she duoed with my barbarian/rogue mix and she stayed toe-to-toe with me on kills/dps, while also having rage/haste/displacement/cures for when we got in trouble...until I started getting some of my higher level items out of the TR cache...it is a great build with a lot of potential. Too many people play this build as a barbarian and forget they have a nice blue bar for healing and casting otto's irresistable dance.