wheres all of the caster druids?

[Khanan]

How come everyones talking about druid melee builds? it seems to me at least,that the caster would be the way to go,melee seems under-powered. theres such a painful lack of info on this forum about druid casters. would anyone like to share their knowledge of epic lvl caster druids with the world? maybe comparisons with the other offensive caster classes and healers?

[psykopeta]

How come everyones talking about druid melee builds? it seems to me at least,that the caster would be the way to go,melee seems under-powered. theres such a painful lack of info on this forum about druid casters. would anyone like to share their knowledge of epic lvl caster druids with the world? maybe comparisons with the other offensive caster classes and healers?

well, lemme tell you few things:

-in heroic is a good caster, having a cc with reflex and evo based is great, also de damage on spells is able to kill mobs
-on epic, knowing that: his instakill sucks compared to wizar, his spellpower sucks compared to sorc(also draconic breath uses in or cha, never wis) and to other divines(yes, quell can affect you, then i guess they're divines XD) leaves really few solutions
- go elted angel to get some more healing spellpower and be a healer, is nice
- go shiradi and cast several aoe's on same place like ice storm, earthquake and pray for procs, because druid hasn't enough spellpower to deal real direct damage on spells
- don't get the pre, it's just useless, also think in splashing 1 lvl of arcane/divine to get 40 spellpower for 1 AP (max spellpower you'll get as druid is 65 and after spending 10 AP, however the crit lines are nice, increase 3% every rank)

and why ppl go melee when being druid? you can push you earthquake dc being melee, specially with monk splash with stunning fist, also druid melee has great sinergy with melee classes and the animal form benefits of weapons are easy to understand and can become powerful if wisely used

so, it's not the druid melee who's underpowered, all the druids are, simply they're forced to melee AND cast for being succesfully used(only if being healer won't melee, because the animal's form increased cd), a melee will use earthquake, sleet storm, and healing spells...a caster will have to melee when mobs are on eartquake to push the dps because it sucks

[Tilomere]

A level 20-25 druid has a base mana pool of 1500 or so including stats, magical training, and level ups.

As mobs go from 1-300k health bosses at level 20 to 1.5M health bosses in EE's, you still only have a base mana pool of 1500, and your spell power/crit only increases your spell damage by 25% or so from 20-25.

The result is that you simply don't have enough mana to actually nuke a 1.5M health boss down, let alone get to one by nuking.

At the same time as mob health is increasing 5x, mob damage is also increasing 5x. This means that instead of needing to spend 500 mana on healing a party between shrines at 20, a druid will need to spend basically their whole pool, and then pot, or their whole pool while using ED healing abilities which are more efficient just to keep a party alive.

This means that the majority of druids are seeking non-mana based ways of doing damage.

After the Enh pass, you might see 3 light monk 17 / druid using essence of the shrike/align the heavens to try to both heal and cast using SLA for damage.

[Charononus]

benched to see if they lower ee saves to the point where dc casting makes sense

[Rubbinns]

Wearing hand wraps.

[Tilomere]

Wearing hand wraps.

The other problem is that the further away from level 17 you get (where you get your final lvl 9 spells), the more you need to rely on ED interactions with your spells to kill mobs, instead of the spells themselves.

Shiradi is the default high end caster ED due to no DC abilities. Druid spells are generally DoT, or clouds, which mean they only work with Shiradi on initial cast. The only multi hit spells that work well are fire ones like body of the sun or fire seeds.

However, end game content hates fire. Out of all the raids, you have fire healing golems, fire resistant 100 bladesworn, fire resistant 100 liches, fire immune red dragons, fire immune devils (ToD), fire immune devils again (Shroud), fire immune devils a third time (Chrono), fire immune gargoyle demon, demon queen gaurded by fire elementals, fire and cloud giants mixed in with fire elementals, and then 3 raids where fire actually works, FoT, CITW, and Xyyzzyy. So a druids only good interactions with end game caster ED's are through fire which doesn't work end game since 70+% of all the mobs are immune.

Druid 17 spells against level 17 mobs are fine. Druid 17 spells against CR 60 EE mobs tickle, because the saves are so high that they actually do less damage then they do at level 17, against mobs with a kazillion times more hp, or the mobs are just outright immune. Which brings you back to relying on Druid ED spell interactions to kill things, but most mobs are outright immune to the druid spells that interact well with ED abilities. So even if you had a dedicated healer and could full nuke with your spell points, there would be almost no point.

So yea, wearing hand wraps...

[Naera]

However, end game content hates fire. Out of all the raids, you have fire healing golems, fire resistant 100 bladesworn, fire resistant 100 liches, fire immune red dragons, fire immune devils (ToD), fire immune devils again (Shroud), fire immune devils a third time (Chrono), fire immune gargoyle demon, demon queen gaurded by fire elementals, fire and cloud giants mixed in with fire elementals, and then 3 raids where fire actually works, FoT, CITW, and Xyyzzyy. So a druids only good interactions with end game caster ED's are through fire which doesn't work end game since 70+% of all the mobs are immune.

By your own analysis, fire druids are fine in 100% end game. They might have problems in old, outdated (and in most cases very easy) raids, which are hardly run anymore.

[Khanan]

well,thanks for all of the input guys,thats unfortunate. im currently lvling a caster druid right now and was really looking forward to the playstyle transferring well into epic,because it is a lot of fun to play currently. im still going to get him up to 25,kit him out and see if i can make it useful,because as i said,the playstyle is really fun right now. heres hoping they tweak the class in the future,and the gimp gloves come off,lol. thnx again.

[SerPounce]

By your own analysis, fire druids are fine in 100% end game. They might have problems in old, outdated (and in most cases very easy) raids, which are hardly run anymore.

Eh, what's your definition of "end game" and "hardly run"? All three demonweb bosses are fire immune, as are all the fire giants in TOR. Shroud is still probably the most run raid (on Cannith), and while a completion is easy, it would sure be a long run with 12 fire speced druids.

Fire's not as bad as it used to be, but it's still easily the worst element end game.

As far as why we don't see much about building caster druids I think a lot of it has to do with it being pretty established how to build a decent one. We hear more about wolves because: (1) wolves are cool, and (2) it's darn difficult to figure out how to build a decent one.

[susiedupfer]

well, lemme tell you few things:

-in heroic is a good caster, having a cc with reflex and evo based is great, also de damage on spells is able to kill mobs
-on epic, knowing that: his instakill sucks compared to wizar, his spellpower sucks compared to sorc(also draconic breath uses in or cha, never wis) and to other divines(yes, quell can affect you, then i guess they're divines XD) leaves really few solutions
- go elted angel to get some more healing spellpower and be a healer, is nice
- go shiradi and cast several aoe's on same place like ice storm, earthquake and pray for procs, because druid hasn't enough spellpower to deal real direct damage on spells
- don't get the pre, it's just useless, also think in splashing 1 lvl of arcane/divine to get 40 spellpower for 1 AP (max spellpower you'll get as druid is 65 and after spending 10 AP, however the crit lines are nice, increase 3% every rank)

and why ppl go melee when being druid? you can push you earthquake dc being melee, specially with monk splash with stunning fist, also druid melee has great sinergy with melee classes and the animal form benefits of weapons are easy to understand and can become powerful if wisely used

so, it's not the druid melee who's underpowered, all the druids are, simply they're forced to melee AND cast for being succesfully used(only if being healer won't melee, because the animal's form increased cd), a melee will use earthquake, sleet storm, and healing spells...a caster will have to melee when mobs are on eartquake to push the dps because it sucks

If that is your opinion of caster druids, you are doing it wrong.

Caster druids are awesome up to and including EE content. You have to play it like a druid, though. Not multi-class, not build for melee, not try to do too many different things with one toon.

[susiedupfer]

How come everyones talking about druid melee builds? it seems to me at least,that the caster would be the way to go,melee seems under-powered. theres such a painful lack of info on this forum about druid casters. would anyone like to share their knowledge of epic lvl caster druids with the world? maybe comparisons with the other offensive caster classes and healers?

Your question is too open. Please give specifics.

Druids are druids. They are not wizards, sorcs, clerics, FVS, or bards. You need to plan them that way and play them that way.

On my oldest druid(made day 1 of them being available), I have 3427 sp in EA destiny. I use that one to raid with, as I can heal, CC, and insta-kill mobs. To do all those, you have to have SP. The raid leader calls me duct tape, because I can fill in and do most jobs not directly DPS'ing bosses. I can effectively CC EE content if there are not too many high evasion mobs. I can even CC some red named mobs on EE.

I can, however, even on my first lifer, sit down(non-evasion) mobs on EH content. I do not know about EE, because she just uses too many pots trying to cope with EE. I will give her cleric, FVS, wiz, sorc PL ASAP. Those do help quite a bit. She just needs Shroud completions to cleanse GS before getting TR'd.

Caster druids are awesome. But you have to stop trying to compare them to other classes. They can't nuke like a sorc. Or heal like a cleric. They can, however, heal as well as the average FVS. Not rez, they rez like an arthritic snail. But they can pump out HoTs that can effectively keep a melee group up nicely. They heal better than a bard. They CC better than a wizard in MotU and epic GH content.

Here is the definitive caster druid build thread. I do not agree with all of what he says, but it is a good, solid place to start.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...survivability)

[Systern]

The biggest mistake people make about druids is thinking that you can build them similar to FvS and clerics. They're not a class where you can build "an evoker" or build "a melee". Druids need to do both. You can set a preference for upto 70% of one and 30% of the other, but Trying to go 90%/10% will leave you gimped.

As people pointed out, you get neither the spell point pool nor spell power enhancements to be viable as just an "evoker" type. Druids play best when you learn to adapt your form to the role you're taking.

Tanky Melee: Bear form. Just as people point out that a full sword and board tank is rarely necessary, this form rarely shines.
DPS Melee: Wolf Form. You shine as secondary DPS, with your sneak attack adding to beating on the backs of critters. Light CC and spell support is available with the high cooldown on spells.
Buff bot: Just shrined/entered? Need to buff up. revert to your Human/natural race form.
Gish caster: Fire Elemental. Up close and personal casting and healing required? The Fire Elemental gives you full access to spells and strong close proximity form abilities. Normal spell cool down makes adding healing support tot the party easier than animal forms.
Ranged Caster: Water Elemental. Debuffs and ranged single target and limited AoE spells make this the best choice for when you just need to hang back and pew pew. Full healing capability and a rather nice debuff to complement the Water savant or Palemaster in the party.

When the situation changes in the quest, so should your form. My favorite druid (I have a few ) spends the majority of her quest time in wolf form, but there's always a time where being in Water ele is more appropriate.

[Pewf]

I play a caster druid in Draconic Incarnate - I know, but it's a charisma to save! Luckily I put 16 base charisma, and currently have 32. I am working on maximizing this a lot more along with my dex and wisdom - after I figure out how to balance my wisdom out.

He's a blast to play, and I can solo a lot. Although, I am going to wait til' level 25 to start anything EE.

[susiedupfer]

well,thanks for all of the input guys,thats unfortunate. im currently lvling a caster druid right now and was really looking forward to the playstyle transferring well into epic,because it is a lot of fun to play currently. im still going to get him up to 25,kit him out and see if i can make it useful,because as i said,the playstyle is really fun right now. heres hoping they tweak the class in the future,and the gimp gloves come off,lol. thnx again.

I am repeating myself a bit here, but level 25 caster druids(as well as all the levels after you get firewall) are viable and a whole lot of fun. I am sorry not everyone understands that you need to combine form, enhancements, and spells for optimum use, but it is their loss.

Try water form, Mantle of the Icy Soul, Ice Storm, and Earthquake on mobs in EH or EE Reclaiming the Rift. Just saying.

You really do not want to have Primal in mind as your best ED, though. It is not even on my list of better ones. I swap from Draconic to Exalted Angel most of the time.

[JasonJi72]

I have a pure caster duid, but you would probably not notice, since he is always swinging, biting, etc.. between spellcasting. I only took 2 melee feats (imp crit and power attack) and they work fine for a 'caster' druid.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

I think the new enhancement based SLAs will make caster druids more viable.

My Lvl 18 Druid is enjoying Season's Herald much more now.



However, the flame blades are a problem, and probably part of why melee people are X-classing. We were supposed to be able to dump strength and use Wis for Flame Blades, but too many things are immune to flame in this game and, for some reason, I see no light damage when I use Crown of Summer with Flame Blades against creatures with fire immunity.

If we could have a water element for an option for blades that would help. If they did even the most minimal of physical damage, that would help. But being a pure caster that pulls out Flame Blades for things we can't crush with magic, it's not very possible.



(And why are so many things absolutely immune to fire, but when I'm in fire elemental form, I'm not? Best I not get started on that...)

[Charononus]

I think the new enhancement based SLAs will make caster druids more viable.

Druids are one of the most insanely op builds right now when it comes to dealing with bosses especially.

[Soulfurnace]

Druids are one of the most insanely op builds right now when it comes to dealing with bosses especially.

Shh. Nothing for the devs to see here.

[susiedupfer]

Druids are one of the most insanely op builds right now when it comes to dealing with bosses especially.

The first rule of Fight Club.

[Atremus]

I think the new enhancement based SLAs will make caster druids more viable.

My Lvl 18 Druid is enjoying Season's Herald much more now.

I have really been enjoying my Druid [18Druid / 2 Monk] post update. The SLA's really, really helped out on the SP consumption and the extra 3 levels appear to make up for the lost Toughness Enhancements that went away with the enhancement pass.