Quest Ransack AKA how to kill a (part of the) game

[Wizza]

Personally, I think this is a part of the game that has needed killing for a long time. The idea of getting "experience" by running the same quest over and over until your eyes bleed is a bit ridiculous. So I'm glad to see that this will now be (strongly) discouraged.

That said, this change needs to come with other changes that compensate, so people have other options to get XP. Some people grind quests because they are efficiency bots who've forgotten that this is a quest/party based game. But some grinding seems to be mandatory simply because there isn't enough XP at certain levels. Especially the late teens.

Turbine, if you want us to do more and different quests, fix the XP rewards. Start with Amrath and Cannith, two areas that have become near-ghosttowns because their XP/effort ratios are too small, and represent a waste of good content.

We've been playing for a while. What they will do is probably this:

- Increase the XP from the needed quests (Amrath, Cannith etc) by 500-1000 and call it a day.
- They will reduce the XP needed for a TR2 from 4,378,500 to 4,000,000.
- The daily bonuses quests will be, most of the times, on quests from: Threnal, 3BC, Restless Isles, Challenges etc.


Grinding a quest over and over has never a must for anyone. People CHOSE to do it because IT'S OPTIMAL and FASTER. Actually, here we have some people that testifies that you can run a TR2 by running once and done.

Now they are killing our CHOICE to do as we please, FORCING us to buy packs that would be otherwise RIDICOLOUS.


They killed already our choices with the changes to Dodge, Skill bonuses. With the classes, killing Sorcerers. With DC casting, making Saves over 9000. With EDs, making 3 of them rated 10/10 and the others rated 1-7/10. Now with the XP grind.

[Loromir]

So this would mean I would play through the 10 quests in about 1-2 hours ..... then what ......... I still need to run them at least 40 times to level

Something seems a little bit off here

Yes something does seem a bit off...Do you really need to run 50 qests per level to get to the next level? Your doing it wrong.

[caissede12]

Please note that the current values are placeholders. The command to change them is currently not working

Also, GrrArgh, the quest not giving you any XP on your sixth run is a bug. We have a fix for it, but I'm not sure when that fix will make it to Lamannia (probably in a couple of weeks.)

Devs affirmed they were "placeholders" ... even If I dont feel better knowing they are "placeholders" numbers... no point trowing **** all over the place.

[Wizza]

Update:

Hey there folks, just an update about the placeholder values that are on Lamannia right now.

Currently, the text that explains the values is bugged and is using old placeholder information. The actual values we will be using on Lamannia are as follows and are closer to what we would actually go with:

XP Bonus on daily first run: +20%
XP Ransack per repeat: -20%
XP Ransack caps off at -80%
XP Ransack regained per 18 hour "day" cycle: +50%
XP Ransack regained per other quest run: +0%

Please keep in mind that these are not final values, and we have not yet decided 100% on them.

Decreased from -30% to -20%, close to my guess of -25%.
Every 18 hours you get a +50%, on paper this looks nice. But I won't be fooled by the "we put absurd placeholders so we can fix later and become heroes" attitude. This XP ransack is still lame to me.

I still can't farm the **** out of a quest if I want to. WHY NOT? Why is my choice being taken away?

[Stormblade721]

I don't really see the problem per se. Grinding XP for levels is kind of a drag but I don't see why you would want to cap the XP in this manner. Most people grinding through lives that often, are going to be upset, I myself, would rather get the Levelling to 20 out of the way as quickly as possible. I've been playing since 2007, and new content doesn't come along often enough to make doing the same quests over And over anything but a tedious grind. Even now, the thought of grinding Deleras 2 and Thrall over and over again to make levels is anything but fun. I currently have 2 third life Tr's stuck between 10 and 12, because I'm just tired of doing the same quests over and over. Three Barrel Cove? (SHUDDER) god forbid. I do not believe the casual player will care one way or the other. I do believe the players who are driven to TR toons over and over to attempt to reach completionist status will be uset at having to run many of the quests that most do not run now, as either the XP per minute is sub par, or the quests themselves are onerous. I have to admit, I quit running Three Barrel Cove a long time ago.

[Enoach]

http://i.imgur.com/cigSGJy.jpg

For those who can't view it:

Quest Ransack is a stacking penalty for repeatedly playing the same quest. You may play each difficulty level once per character, per incarnation without incurring Quest Ransack penalties. After that, each playthrough will add a 30& stacking penalty to base XP, up to a maximum of -90%. Every day the penalty is reduced by 5%. Each other quest with a daily bonus played will reduce the penalty by 1%.

Maybe a question to ask is why the image posted and the numbers in your OP don't match:

Hey there folks, just an update about the placeholder values that are on Lamannia right now.

Currently, the text that explains the values is bugged and is using old placeholder information. The actual values we will be using on Lamannia are as follows and are closer to what we would actually go with:

XP Bonus on daily first run: +20%
XP Ransack per repeat: -20%
XP Ransack caps off at -80%
XP Ransack regained per 18 hour "day" cycle: +50%
XP Ransack regained per other quest run: +0%

Please keep in mind that these are not final values, and we have not yet decided 100% on them.

This plan seems a lot more reasonable and would still allow those who find fun in farming small amounts of quests, there fun even if it is an every other day thing. Or Just under 36 hours to remove a Ransack of 80%.

Numbers posted in the OP, yep totally wrong. Kookie's numbers I could live with and I'm sure others would agree.

[Enoach]

Update:




Decreased from -30% to -20%, close to my guess of -25%.
Every 18 hours you get a +50%, on paper this looks nice. But I won't be fooled by the "we put absurd placeholders so we can fix later and become heroes" attitude. This XP ransack is still lame to me.

I still can't farm the **** out of a quest if I want to. WHY NOT? Why is my choice being taken away?

you are right the ability to run a quest multiple times now comes with a cost that resets. In the end, this is still better for large groups of people and even better news for all of those that have not TR'd a character but have run every quest so many times while it was the "End Game" until they basically only get the "pity" XP. It removes the penalty that Epic levelers had to deal with because of how they choose to level Heroically.

From a Developer point, you want repeatability. But you also want to encourage playing more of the game. I think these new numbers goes a great distance at marrying the Developers goals while still keeping it open to player playstyle.

[CoasterHops]

Update:




Decreased from -30% to -20%, close to my guess of -25%.
Every 18 hours you get a +50%, on paper this looks nice. But I won't be fooled by the "we put absurd placeholders so we can fix later and become heroes" attitude. This XP ransack is still lame to me.

I still can't farm the **** out of a quest if I want to. WHY NOT? Why is my choice being taken away?

This absolutely looks better to me than what is on live at present.
What levels are you envisioning having difficulty levelling through with this mechanic in place?????
I can see this going a long way to diminishing the grind from 16 - 20. Even if it means you have to log out and play another toon for two days until your litany ransack has reset (which caps at 80% anyway...... hmmmmmm...............)

[Wizza]

I don't really see the problem per se. Grinding XP for levels is kind of a drag but I don't see why you would want to cap the XP in this manner. Most people grinding through lives that often, are going to be upset, I myself, would rather get the Levelling to 20 out of the way as quickly as possible. I've been playing since 2007, and new content doesn't come along often enough to make doing the same quests over And over anything but a tedious grind. Even now, the thought of grinding Deleras 2 and Thrall over and over again to make levels is anything but fun. I currently have 2 third life Tr's stuck between 10 and 12, because I'm just tired of doing the same quests over and over. Three Barrel Cove? (SHUDDER) god forbid. I do not believe the casual player will care one way or the other. I do believe the players who are driven to TR toons over and over to attempt to reach completionist status will be uset at having to run many of the quests that most do not run now, as either the XP per minute is sub par, or the quests themselves are onerous. I have to admit, I quit running Three Barrel Cove a long time ago.

It is unfun for whom? When I TRed my Sorcerer, I had a blast farming a quest over and over because: 1) it was every time faster than the previous run, 2) I knew the quest so no stress, 3) I did what I wanted but I still had a penalty on XP for every run I did. So, again, why the way I run a TR wrong?

you are right the ability to run a quest multiple times now comes with a cost that resets. In the end, this is still better for large groups of people and even better news for all of those that have not TR'd a character but have run every quest so many times while it was the "End Game" until they basically only get the "pity" XP. It removes the penalty that Epic levelers had to deal with because of how they choose to level Heroically.

From a Developer point, you want repeatability. But you also want to encourage playing more of the game. I think these new numbers goes a great distance at marrying the Developers goals while still keeping it open to player playstyle.

This will not increment sales. If a game, to advance, forces you to spend money that early, it will just drives people away. Also, wouldn't increase XP to those sad packs help their sales more than this? I'm sure that would. In this way, you let everyone play however the F they want, without putting in place stupid mechanics because you have no idea how to stop ED farm in Epic levels.

This absolutely looks better to me than what is on live at present.
What levels are you envisioning having difficulty levelling through with this mechanic in place?????
I can see this going a long way to diminishing the grind from 16 - 20. Even if it means you have to log out and play another toon for two days until your litany ransack has reset (which caps at 80% anyway...... hmmmmmm...............)

This will diminish the grind in absolutely no way. This will INCREASE it.

You answered yourself: to advance level, you have to log out/play another toon for 2 days when you hit litany of the dead? How is that healthy for the game again?

Silly mechanic is silly.

[ScudRuckins]

My problem with this is that the dojo currently has xp pots that only effect the base xp in the same way as this new mechanic. So it seems very $%&^# that you nerf the xp with the left hand while the right hand holds out a shiny new +50% base quest xp only pot with a price tag hanging off of it to minimalize your new quest xp nerf. If I was to farm shadow, tear or bloody in the same way that I previously did many times on my completionist character I could almost still do so but it would now cost me additional money to do so. This to me represents a money grab that I see as going to far in pushing me to have to spend money over and beyond what players already spend on buying packs, paying VIP etc. . So now I have to run with a xp pot and also a new base xp only xp pot. Gee thank you turbine for this exciting new game mechanic and opportunity to spend TP's. To me it is extremely telling that the treasure ransack still has a longer time limit than this. It seems to me like this is only designed as a money grab. If this is not a money grab then turbine should put the chest ransack and quest xp ransack on the same timer and with the same regen timer. But if they did that there would be no reason to buy the shiny new xp pots. My belief is that this has never been about anything other than Turbine finding another way to reach into your pocket. I would love to hear from a dev on why they think it's ok to nerf while at the same time selling a counter nerf but I don't see that happening.

[Soulfurnace]

Personally, I think this is a part of the game that has needed killing for a long time.

Some people grind quests because they are efficiency bots who've forgotten that this is a quest/party based game.

Why should I be forced to run content I don't enjoy?
When I TR, esp on a life I don't enjoy (Sorc, believe it or not!) I don't want to run random quests.

My TR plan is simple; run the content I enjoy, a lot. It's not going to give me a 20 hour TR or anything, but I get there in a week (two if RL is busy), and have fun. Making me run things I don't enjoy, then punishing me more for running what I DO enjoy? No thanks. And yes, this is a party based game. Doesn't mean I have to run quests I dislike. When's the last time someone enjoyed IQ? I don't enjoy it. Thus I don't run it.

Combine this with being forced to grind out ED's again (unless I've missed something) when I feel like stopping the TRing for some epic play? Bloody insane.

-stuff-

This.

[carpemontis]

I was totally stunned when I first read this.

Totally ridiculous concept inn the scheme of things.

People ask for repeat penalty assistance and then this comes about and hits everyone between the eyes.

I cant see anything else than Turbine basing this whole system on the guy who posted he ran his 36 pt tr every single quest 1st time elite to cap.

Very sly attempt here for Turbine to sneak in more Quest Pack sales on the player base. Thus squeezing out the casuals even more and pressing the F2P purchases.

They elliminate TR / LR timers only to have us TR for what may be longer by having to run multiple single serve quests.

This goes completely against how many people may choose to play the game in each his own specific way. If you want to single quest grind yourself silly then go for it.... If you want to flower sniff all of Eberron and Faerun with every quest then it is your choice.

Player options are what DDO has always been about....

Laters

[CoasterHops]

It is unfun for whom? When I TRed my Sorcerer, I had a blast farming a quest over and over because: 1) it was every time faster than the previous run, 2) I knew the quest so no stress, 3) I did what I wanted but I still had a penalty on XP for every run I did. So, again, why the way I run a TR wrong?



This will not increment sales. If a game, to advance, forces you to spend money that early, it will just drives people away. Also, wouldn't increase XP to those sad packs help their sales more than this? I'm sure that would. In this way, you let everyone play however the F they want, without putting in place stupid mechanics because you have no idea how to stop ED farm in Epic levels.



This will diminish the grind in absolutely no way. This will INCREASE it.

You answered yourself: to advance level, you have to log out/play another toon for 2 days when you hit litany of the dead? How is that healthy for the game again?

Silly mechanic is silly.

It would seem you misread what I said, I was using Litany as an example of running a quest at High Heroic levels to get xp but not neccessarily advance level, surely advancing level can be achieved by doing other quests.

Also you don't seem to catch the bit about Litany repeat penalties capping at -80% or quests like Sane Asylum capping at -80% etc......

So for power gamers who zerg TRS what does a -80% Litany net for xp assuming xp bonuses and pots (cause these fast TRS use pots) can anyone do the math as well as give us typical speed of run?

The funny thing is you could burn Litany to the ground then spend two days on the same toon burning other quests to the ground (you don't have to log to another toon) then come back to Litany and work through the quests in order you did them burning them to the ground again if you so desired.
To me with the first time of the day 20% bonus for each quest it is going to reduce the grind from 16 - 20 for the majority of players other than those that do 16 - 20 in a day on a 3rd life + toon.

Also I didn't see you answer my question for which levels you envision having difficulty powering through with this mechanic in place?

[nibel]

Why should I be forced to run content I don't enjoy?

Same question I had. I don't like most of Reaver Refuge quests, all of Necro 4, and Rainbow in the Dark. Yet, I have to run them through my leveling because it is what everyone is running by those levels.

My solution for it was running things once and done. What will be your solution?

[Wizza]

It would seem you misread what I said, I was using Litany as an example of running a quest at High Heroic levels to get xp but not neccessarily advance level, surely advancing level can be achieved by doing other quests.

Also you don't seem to catch the bit about Litany repeat penalties capping at -80% or quests like Sane Asylum capping at -80% etc......

So for power gamers who zerg TRS what does a -80% Litany net for xp assuming xp bonuses and pots (cause these fast TRS use pots) can anyone do the math as well as give us typical speed of run?

The funny thing is you could burn Litany to the ground then spend two days on the same toon burning other quests to the ground (you don't have to log to another toon) then come back to Litany and work through the quests in order you did them burning them to the ground again if you so desired.
To me with the first time of the day 20% bonus for each quest it is going to reduce the grind from 16 - 20 for the majority of players other than those that do 16 - 20 in a day on a 3rd life + toon.

Also I didn't see you answer my question for which levels you envision having difficulty powering through with this mechanic in place?

You think this system will reduce the grind from 16 to 20? Just because of the first time 20%? You have really no idea what you are talking about, do you? This will INCREASE it.

It's not about the difficulty I have powering through 1-28. It's about the fact that I had a choice that's being taken away from us.

As many of us asked:

Why should I be forced to run content I don't enjoy?

[dlsidhe]

You think this system will reduce the grind from 16 to 20? Just because of the first time 20%? You have really no idea what you are talking about, do you? This will INCREASE it.

It's not about the difficulty I have powering through 1-28. It's about the fact that I had a choice that's being taken away from us.

As many of us asked:

Why should I be forced to run content I don't enjoy?

Short Answer: You're not.

Long Answer: You're not forced to, but if you don't want to then you might have to *gasp* take two days off. It's like other games giving "rest XP" for time logged out.

Let me lay it out for you in my world where a TR takes six to seven months, because that's how I roll:

Day 1) I log in on my third life monk, who's chilling at level 6 right now. I farm the bajeezus out of the Depths chain on hard, because it's a speed run for decent XP.

Day 2) Guild runs of Epic Stuff with Naeryna, or soloing epics, looking for Specific Gear. Oh, look, lots of XP because I haven't farmed them to death recently. Huzzah!

Day 3) Third life arcane gets a turn: she's at 5, so I run Waterworks hard a few times.

Day 4) Third life monk returns to the Depths, and gets full XP for it again.

Day 5) Split between Vali the Druid, and Naerrows the Soon-to-Be DWS. They're both in the hell of 15-18, but they're first-life. Vali can solo-farm The Missing for Decent XP Per Run, or can solo Rainbow In The Dark. Naerrows goes and grinds around GH for a bit, because soloing anything in there is easy with IPS. Because they haven't done so in a couple days, at least, they get full XP for it all. Woo!

Day 6) Arcane TR has a go-round in WW again, and hits Catacombs 1-2-3. Yay XP

Day 7) Guild Epics with Naeryna? Yes, and full XP...again.

Looksee, I haven't run any quests I don't like, and gotten more XP than I would have otherwise.

[Charononus]

Short Answer: You're not.

Long Answer: You're not forced to, but if you don't want to then you might have to *gasp* take two days off. It's like other games giving "rest XP" for time logged out.

Let me lay it out for you in my world where a TR takes six to seven months, because that's how I roll:

Day 1) I log in on my third life monk, who's chilling at level 6 right now. I farm the bajeezus out of the Depths chain on hard, because it's a speed run for decent XP.

Day 2) Guild runs of Epic Stuff with Naeryna, or soloing epics, looking for Specific Gear. Oh, look, lots of XP because I haven't farmed them to death recently. Huzzah!

Day 3) Third life arcane gets a turn: she's at 5, so I run Waterworks hard a few times.

Day 4) Third life monk returns to the Depths, and gets full XP for it again.

Day 5) Split between Vali the Druid, and Naerrows the Soon-to-Be DWS. They're both in the hell of 15-18, but they're first-life. Vali can solo-farm The Missing for Decent XP Per Run, or can solo Rainbow In The Dark. Naerrows goes and grinds around GH for a bit, because soloing anything in there is easy with IPS. Because they haven't done so in a couple days, at least, they get full XP for it all. Woo!

Day 6) Arcane TR has a go-round in WW again, and hits Catacombs 1-2-3. Yay XP

Day 7) Guild Epics with Naeryna? Yes, and full XP...again.

Looksee, I haven't run any quests I don't like, and gotten more XP than I would have otherwise.

So it's your way or the highway, gotchya it'll be interesting to see how many choose the highway.

[dlsidhe]

So it's your way or the highway, gotchya it'll be interesting to see how many choose the highway.

No, I'm not saying there's no other way; you can grind at 80% xp reduction, which on some quests is STILL decent XP at level. You can run other quests that don't normally get run. There's lots of different ways.

But saying you're "forced" to run quests you don't like? That's exaggeration.

[CoasterHops]

You think this system will reduce the grind from 16 to 20? Just because of the first time 20%? You have really no idea what you are talking about, do you? This will INCREASE it.

It's not about the difficulty I have powering through 1-28. It's about the fact that I had a choice that's being taken away from us.

As many of us asked:

With 17 Toons, one 6th life capped, one 4th life capped, two 3rd life capped, a cpl 2nd life capped and others in various levels of heroic or epic I sure don't have any idea what I'm talking about.....

I'm pretty sure this will reduce the grind for those who take longer than a day or two to get a 3rd life through the lvl 16 - 20 content, which is where the real grind is.
How will this increase the grind for those people? Seriously how will it increase it? You explain it.

[dlsidhe]

ETA: I am the opposite of a "my way or the highway" player. I'm a "whatever" player. People who want to do a 37-hour TR will find a way; more power to 'em. I actually follow the 37-hour TR plan, it's just that 37 hours playtime for me equals 6-7 months of Real Life Time. If I'm not locked to following specific quests, if I can run House P quests at-level for XP and not worry about Epic Levels, farm VoN3 for XP and come back to it at 21, I consider that to be better than locked into having to run specific quests on specific difficulties specific numbers of times. YMMV. Please do not take my opinions as some kind of hard truth that you must accept; I'm just pointing out that no one is forcing anyone to do anything, and to say otherwise is a horrible exaggeration.