Item changes for those level 0 items.

[FestusHood]

You guys crack me up. You're the uber forumites that can't play anything under epic elite because it has no challenge. Yet apparently you can't get through Korthos without bugged gear.

For all those people with old first generation icy burst weapons. Let me clue you in to something. By modern standards those weapons are junk. You should have replaced them long ago if twinking was such a big issue for you.

[Galeria]

So, there will be no more BtA random items from Sharn, Shan-to-Kor, Chronoscope and Red Fens? Because why bother making them BtA when they are the same junk as any other chain?

To be fair, you should have admitted that as well. Random BtA items with lowered levels will be going away in the automated junk system because apparently the architect of this awesome piece of coding doesn't know how to program an exception for them.

I have no problem with fixing things that were obviously coded incorrectly, but completely invalidating the lowered-min-level BtA items is just lazy.

[PurpleTimb]

I support and applaud the devs cleaning up old code and fixing the processes. I hope this will result in fewer, easier to fix bugs in the future.

That said, retroactive changes to nerf years old loot is bad for the game. It helps no one; fixes nothing that was broken; and only serves to take away enjoyment from players. Does it break the game? No. Will players get by without their ML:0 rings? Of course. But if you give something to someone and then take it away you shouldn't be surprised that they are unhappy about it. I can and do level my TR characters just fine without ML:0 rings. However, I spent a lot of time and effort acquiring those items and took pride in having something unique that was later unattainable. Taking them away takes away one more fun and interesting thing from the game and makes me less likely to want to bother trying to get the next new thing that comes along.

I also took a lot of pride in my Superior Glaciation IX dagger I earned from many, many hours of coin jumping. Two updates later it became a +1 dagger again. Guess how much time I've spent on the ice jumps since then?

What's next on the dev's to do list? Perhaps we need to 'fix' all those original green steel items out there that still are ML:8? We can't let that bug continue to plague the game.

I understand the need for Turbine to continually update the game to prevent it from stagnating. But why does it seem repeatedly that programming time is being spent working on things that will make the game less fun to play?

[thouston]

i guess i can deconstruct a bunch of weapons and items, thus freeing up alot of bank space, eliminating any need to purchase additional storage.

[Citzen_Gkar]

For all those people with old first generation icy burst weapons. Let me clue you in to something. By modern standards those weapons are junk. You should have replaced them long ago if twinking was such a big issue for you.

Not really. Some of them were pretty darn nice considering they weren't bound. The really twink items now are BtCoE so even if they are a bit powerful they are less useful in my books if they can only get used once for a couple levels and not by every character you have as they level.

Of course L1-4 is so easy that half the time at least I'm too lazy to twink anything out beyond a stack of pots and my House P clickie anyway lol.

[Violith]

Just for info - pure good would be +2 under new system as far as I am aware. At some point I think they changed pure good on random loot gen to match that of crafting i.e. +2 but left existing random loot gen items with pure good alone. But as every random item is working off the same basis (in theory) then I'd say pure good on all random gen stuff will be +2.

alright. but even if pg is +2, and ghost touch is +2, im still getting an extra +1 somewhere. does metal material add to enhancement level?

[Carpone]

The game needs more incentives to TR, not fewer. This is a step in the wrong direction.

[HernandoCortez]

The game needs more incentives to TR, not fewer. This is a step in the wrong direction.

I agree with that.

[mons]

You guys crack me up. You're the uber forumites that can't play anything under epic elite because it has no challenge. Yet apparently you can't get through Korthos without bugged gear.

For all those people with old first generation icy burst weapons. Let me clue you in to something. By modern standards those weapons are junk. You should have replaced them long ago if twinking was such a big issue for you.

Its really not so much about the items themselves but the time spent grinding for them. The players knew about the rings, Turbine knew about the rings and even profited from them. The icy burst kits/weapons fall in the same category, time spent grinding/trading all thrown out the window.

[mons]

I support and applaud the devs cleaning up old code and fixing the processes. I hope this will result in fewer, easier to fix bugs in the future.

That said, retroactive changes to nerf years old loot is bad for the game. It helps no one; fixes nothing that was broken; and only serves to take away enjoyment from players. Does it break the game? No. Will players get by without their ML:0 rings? Of course. But if you give something to someone and then take it away you shouldn't be surprised that they are unhappy about it. I can and do level my TR characters just fine without ML:0 rings. However, I spent a lot of time and effort acquiring those items and took pride in having something unique that was later unattainable. Taking them away takes away one more fun and interesting thing from the game and makes me less likely to want to bother trying to get the next new thing that comes along.

I also took a lot of pride in my Superior Glaciation IX dagger I earned from many, many hours of coin jumping. Two updates later it became a +1 dagger again. Guess how much time I've spent on the ice jumps since then?

What's next on the dev's to do list? Perhaps we need to 'fix' all those original green steel items out there that still are ML:8? We can't let that bug continue to plague the game.

I understand the need for Turbine to continually update the game to prevent it from stagnating. But why does it seem repeatedly that programming time is being spent working on things that will make the game less fun to play?

I actually made 3 of those glaciation 9 scepters, funny that the 2 that I put in the stone of change to bind are now junk while the 3rd that I didn't bind still has the glaciation on it.

[DanteEnFuego]

Its really not so much about the items themselves but the time spent grinding for them. The players knew about the rings, Turbine knew about the rings and even profited from them. The icy burst kits/weapons fall in the same category, time spent grinding/trading all thrown out the window.

This... So now my rings are needed. They did at least make them 70 durability, but at ML 11 for +6 stats, I can Crappith Craft better ones...

/fail

[adam1oftheround]

bogus!!! at the very least they should have put Masterful Craftsmanship II on it or something.

Can we please have masterful craftsmanship II or III applied to all of the bound to account end rewards that just got nerfed?

So all my min level one items are now level 3, 5, 9, 11, or 13. While the random loot get items are now better than the end reward items. So that 5 charge haste clickie min level 5 that was on the auction house is now better than the bound to account items that I have been using for the past 17 lives. Good to know.

[adam1oftheround]

i guess i can deconstruct a bunch of weapons and items, thus freeing up alot of bank space, eliminating any need to purchase additional storage.

I AM NOT CRITICIZING WHAT DEVS DO, I AM MAKING A SUGGESTION FOR HOW TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

The right thing would be to offer a refund for anyone who bought Cannith Crafting, Madness Chain, or some other kind of compensation for those who spend their time grinding for an item only to have it nerfed. Another option would be to allow those items masterful craftsmanship II or III.

When I play the game, I want to feel happy. Not like I just got swindled in a BAIT AND SWITCH SCAM.

It seems to prevent creep, the Devs give us something nice, like the bound to account chain end reward items with lowered min level, xp and epic tokens from the Cannith Challenges, Epic wands with low min level, paralyzing items that allow auto-crit, Cannith Crafting, Guild slot items and so on. Then when it has made it's cash cow, they nerf it. Same story for the end rewards bound to account. If you buy this expansion, you can get no min level rings, once the cash cow was made, they nipped it as well. First time it was shame on you, letting it happen again, is shame on me.

I want to be able to say I am happy with the state of the game and the direction it is taking. That is not presently the case.

I feel dirty now for having played this bait and switch game. Yuck!!! LOGGING OFF.

[adam1oftheround]

As stated in this quote, the summary is: founding players are having their toys taken away, and this is where the Devs are spending their time. Don't forget the +4 no min level weapons that are still out there too as long as this is where we are spending our time, lets do a good job of it.

I support and applaud the devs cleaning up old code and fixing the processes. I hope this will result in fewer, easier to fix bugs in the future.

That said, retroactive changes to nerf years old loot is bad for the game. It helps no one; fixes nothing that was broken; and only serves to take away enjoyment from players. Does it break the game? No. Will players get by without their ML:0 rings? Of course. But if you give something to someone and then take it away you shouldn't be surprised that they are unhappy about it. I can and do level my TR characters just fine without ML:0 rings. However, I spent a lot of time and effort acquiring those items and took pride in having something unique that was later unattainable. Taking them away takes away one more fun and interesting thing from the game and makes me less likely to want to bother trying to get the next new thing that comes along.

I also took a lot of pride in my Superior Glaciation IX dagger I earned from many, many hours of coin jumping. Two updates later it became a +1 dagger again. Guess how much time I've spent on the ice jumps since then?

What's next on the dev's to do list? Perhaps we need to 'fix' all those original green steel items out there that still are ML:8? We can't let that bug continue to plague the game.

I understand the need for Turbine to continually update the game to prevent it from stagnating. But why does it seem repeatedly that programming time is being spent working on things that will make the game less fun to play?

[adam1oftheround]

Can we get a bone here? A nice perk or a refund is in order for those of us who bought these packs because the end rewards and fast epic tokens were the talk of the day.

Some players bought the Reign of Madness pack because of the No-minimum-level rings.
Some players bought the Sharn Syndicate pack for the BtA low level items.

Yet another "Screw the players after they've bought it" like the "accidental" Cannith Challenge XP nerfing.

Geoff.

[Uska]

Existing loot shouldn't be changed.

refer back to thomas convenat, 2nd trilogy "give him back something broken"

If loot was broken it should be fixed and that includes existing loot people shouldnt be allowed to have loot that others no longer can access just because they didnt start playing the game soon enough.

[Uska]

Can we get a bone here? A nice perk or a refund is in order for those of us who bought these packs because the end rewards and fast epic tokens were the talk of the day.

Shouldnt be a perk or refund for people loosing and advantage that was clearly a bug they got the advantage of the bug while it worked and shouldnt be surprised that it was fixed.

[Nascoe]

Shouldnt be a perk or refund for people loosing and advantage that was clearly a bug they got the advantage of the bug while it worked and shouldnt be surprised that it was fixed.

I fully understand what the devs wanted to achieve with this change, and its good that most loot now works automatically without having to set lvls. But the BTA items being lower ML was certainly not a bug, rather it was by design. Otherwise something like the sharn syndicate would have had to offer far better items. Just look at them, they are usable at about lvl 2-4 and even then nothing special really. But if you got them on a character, you could use them for exactly that lvl range.

When their minimum lvl goes to 4 (while the items otherwise stay unchanged) there is just no incentive at all to run it, save maybe the favor or to try out your rogue in the rescue quest (the Bookbinder rescue).

[FalseFlag]

refer back to thomas convenat, 2nd trilogy "give him back something broken"

Way to invalidate your argument utterly.

[Tarinia]

Thanks for the link to the Lamania Forum.
I just make a short summarise, because I am not on Lammania and I was always thinking, that the biggest DEVS mistake are
not going live:

1. Feather of Sun stated 2 month ago, that the Min.Lv of items will be accounted automatically in the future.
NO Probs with this, but

2. Nearly never the players get better items retroactively (with new augment slots, dragon scale armor etc.)- so WHY the hack
you think that players items should be nerved retroactively? Are we just playing balls for you? We all care a lot about this game...
and most players in these threads told Feather of sun NOT to go live with this system!

3. After this short comment of feather, where he no stated that a retrocatively change of old items is WAI, we all could assume
a. Turbine will change the Lamanian system or
b. Turbine will delay the new loot system till the negative response is somehow smoothed.

4. There were players in the tread that nearly have crafted 200 icy burst items and should loose them only for the whim of a DEV/new unwanted System?

So my suggestion is:

Change the old treasured items (rings, icy burst) back to normal (manual input if necessary as before) or just take the old treasure system back so long its not possible to
get an overall positive response from the player base. There are also lots of other problems coming with the new system...

Thanks
Best regards
Turbine