Won't play Iconics without TR, explained

[Sunarch_Kunari]

Your same points can be used against you.

You say you want players to focus on the Iconic experience before offering TR options for them, but how is that possible if people won't play them?

I will play them to test them out. And because....

I WANT to play Iconics, but I am not going to lose all of my gear and Tomes to do so. No iconic TR means i can't use the character i have spent 6 years collecting gear etc. on to play. Considering how LONG it took me to farm all that gear, tomes, etc. why on earth do you think players will want to start fresh? Wasn't the whole point of TR to allow players to play a different class without losing all of their hard earned items?

I don't want to end up hating iconics and not being able to get to 20.

[PrettySouljar]

you are spot on sir!

i think iconics are just for noobs to get into vale faster

Iconics will barely net you any cash until you allow the option to TR into, and out of them, and here is why:

You say you want players to focus on the Iconic experience before offering TR options for them, but how is that possible if people won't play them? This is allready proven live, and will only worsen upon expansion release when the few playing an Iconic return to their higher level toons. I WANT to play Iconics, but I am not going to lose all of my gear and Tomes to do so.


The reason being:
No iconic TR means i can't use the character i have spent 6 years collecting gear etc. on to play. Considering how LONG it took me to farm all that gear, tomes, etc. why on earth do you think players will want to start fresh? Wasn't the whole point of TR to allow players to play a different class without losing all of their hard earned items?


Seriously rethink your current position on no TR Iconics at launch. You made a mistake in coming to that decision, its ok to admit that.

[RTFM]

1. I have an Iconic at lvl 25 (the bladeforged, Pali 2/ Sorc 18).
2. I made the toon for a bank toon, but liked playing it so took it to 25 and put some basic gear on him and also took the time to get all 5's in his ED tree. I like the toon, but it is last on my priority list to cap to 28 or play or gear, etc.
3. I found it really ironic that Turbine sold something that they immediately made completely use less (not even able to LR with the UPDATE!).

I will still get around to capping this gimp toon to 28 for fun. Will I make another "Iconic"? Probably not except for a bank toon (if needed).

Pretty silly product offering considering #3 above.

[lyrecono]

iconics wont need a custom made past life once you tr out of them, they are a race, nothing more.

so far i have seen most iconics used for these purposes:

Test a build/ the new content for their main
bank toon (i have spotted a pdk named expitembanktoon yesterday)
challange/shroud runners
favor runners (so many iconics running harbor XD)

mind you that i usualy run tr's (elite zergs) and still less then 10% is an icconic in those runs.
Also with the negative experiences from the first xpack and the warnings people got not to buy the expansion might have had some impact.

not that they are useless, just that they are use impaired in the eyes of many

[Seikojin]

I have seen a handful of players running them on Sarlona. So they get played, but not as much as tr-able characters.

[Dartwick]

I think that they cant be TRed is one of the most attractive features.

My reasonong may offend you but its how I feel.

[psykopeta]

not being able to LR iconics is a shame, insult, call it whatever u want, basically u need to use fred 234234234234 times to swap feats and... oh wait, fred isn't showing even all the feats i should have so... sucks

tr'ing an iconic? starting at lvl 15 in 1st life isn't a win button imho
special pl? what for? they're only races
tr into iconic? why not? they're only races, so start at lvl 1 as every tr toon

why does turbine deny the option to LR/TR iconics, it's not what i would call a clever decision, invest time and money on releasing a product aimed to...5% of ddo population? favor/challenge runners? waste of time nowadays

[Urjak]

not being able to LR iconics is a shame, insult, call it whatever u want, basically u need to use fred 234234234234 times to swap feats and... oh wait, fred isn't showing even all the feats i should have so... sucks

tr'ing an iconic? starting at lvl 15 in 1st life isn't a win button imho
special pl? what for? they're only races
tr into iconic? why not? they're only races, so start at lvl 1 as every tr toon

why does turbine deny the option to LR/TR iconics, it's not what i would call a clever decision, invest time and money on releasing a product aimed to...5% of ddo population? favor/challenge runners? waste of time nowadays

^ +1

I also view it this way: iconics are just subraces (pdk is a subrace of human, sun elf of elf, bladeforged of warforged and shadar-kai ... who cares? they s*** anyhow)

So why not treat them as just any other race? If you TR an iconic they get their normal class-based past life and start their next life at level 1. If you TR into an iconic you get your normal class based past life and start at level 1. See? Done! It would be SOOOOO easy to make iconics appealing!

[Shorlong]

not being able to LR iconics is a shame, insult, call it whatever u want, basically u need to use fred 234234234234 times to swap feats and... oh wait, fred isn't showing even all the feats i should have so... sucks

tr'ing an iconic? starting at lvl 15 in 1st life isn't a win button imho
special pl? what for? they're only races
tr into iconic? why not? they're only races, so start at lvl 1 as every tr toon

why does turbine deny the option to LR/TR iconics, it's not what i would call a clever decision, invest time and money on releasing a product aimed to...5% of ddo population? favor/challenge runners? waste of time nowadays

Hey look, someone else who thinks only 5% of the population DOESN'T TR. Methinks YOU think a much higher percentage of players TR than what really happens. I would say it's probably closer to the opposite...15-ish% of players probably TR, and that's probably it. It may be a little higher.

That being said, they are releasing a new Iconic TR that will be coming with update 20. They have mentioned that in multiple posts.

[Rubbinns]

The Bladeforged are insanely OP. i get 11 APS for Recon SLA every 6 seconds as any class early as level 3. Can not wait to make my Recon army of melees.

[voodoogroves]

The Bladeforged are insanely OP. i get 11 APS for Recon SLA every 6 seconds as any class early as level 3. Can not wait to make my Recon army of melees.

Communion of Scribing makes all my WF cry.

[psykopeta]

Hey look, someone else who thinks only 5% of the population DOESN'T TR. Methinks YOU think a much higher percentage of players TR than what really happens. I would say it's probably closer to the opposite...15-ish% of players probably TR, and that's probably it. It may be a little higher.

That being said, they are releasing a new Iconic TR that will be coming with update 20. They have mentioned that in multiple posts.

d&d players don't bother with gear and boring endgame, so yes, aproximately 5% of ddo players came from wow and other mmorpgs where grinding gear and repeating the same raid til sickness is the law

d&d never was about gear nor grinding, was about the fun of leveling, trying builds and challenges, none of these can be found in the same toon grinding 1 quest/raid for gear

so yes, 1/20 toons doesn't tr, i mean, in less than 1 year 1/20 accounts won't have a completionist toon given the easy button u can find in the game right now

[voodoogroves]

d&d never was about gear nor grinding, was about the fun of leveling, trying builds and challenges, none of these can be found in the same toon grinding 1 quest/raid for gear

Nah, D&D is mostly about planning your character and shopping, with brief forays into killing things.

[Systern]

why does turbine deny the option to LR/TR iconics, it's not what i would call a clever decision, invest time and money on releasing a product aimed to...5% of ddo population? favor/challenge runners? waste of time nowadays

History shows us 2 things:

1) Turbine is driven by deadline, not product quality.
2) Reincarnation is a twitchy beast, as demonstrated by people losing ED XP, the reincarnation cache, and so forth. It will most likely take adjustments to the coding so the special race feats, enhancement trees, etc are preserved. That coding wouldn't be done in time for deadline and so the just delayed that feature. Reincarnation is probably one of the few things that they will fully regression test before pushing out.

[Oxarhamar]

History shows us 2 things:

1) Turbine is driven by deadline, not product quality.
2) Reincarnation is a twitchy beast, as demonstrated by people losing ED XP, the reincarnation cache, and so forth. It will most likely take adjustments to the coding so the special race feats, enhancement trees, etc are preserved. That coding wouldn't be done in time for deadline and so the just delayed that feature. Reincarnation is probably one of the few things that they will fully regression test before pushing out.

no one has lost any ED XP, The reincarnation Cashe works exactly as it should and so forth?

[Systern]

no one has lost any ED XP, The reincarnation Cashe works exactly as it should and so forth?

People certainly have lost ED xp, and whether or not a GM later made them whole again is irrelevant to the process being 'twitchy', glitchy, or buggy.

[Oxarhamar]

People certainly have lost ED xp, and whether or not a GM later made them whole again is irrelevant to the process being 'twitchy', glitchy, or buggy.

we are talking about a bug from using a Free LR from U14 that was quickly corrected once identified

in the end No one lost their Epic Destinies XP

we are in U19 you know this right?

[Archangel_666]

we are talking about a bug from using a Free LR from U14 that was quickly corrected once identified

Quickly? It took eight months.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Just a note from the other side, there are people who will play them. Not having to mess with tring yet another toon is a draw to me, not a drawback. Your post implies no one will play them, which is simply not true. I know several people tired of the tr trains also. I think you are 100% correct that they will be played in far greater numbers when the tr option is available, but there is an audience for them as they are that shouldn't be entirely discounted either.

Here's yet another side from someone who does play one live:

I'm worried about Iconic Reincarnation. After all the time I've put in (and TP invested), what if the final release is a deal-breaker for me?