State of Melee Focused Clerics?

[Raoull]

The big problem is that no melee tree will probably be able to compete with the Aura. The Aura is more ideal on a melee cleric than any other kind of cleric, and being Tier5 means that Tier5 on the actual melee cleric tree will be locked out.

Who knows, I could be wrong... but I doubt it.

Still, anything is better than that protection thing.....

[Atremus]

Now that we are getting War Priest, I would say things looks good. The really hard part will be spending just enough in the RS tree to get Aura and then finding the right combo in War Priest to be effective.

[carpemontis]

There's no intended nerf of melee clerics. We realize there are some issues to address to ensure that comes to pass.

We're working on the plan. More to come.

Removal of divine Might was a big blow to melee clerics bar none....

Well geared Cleric running divine might IV back in U9 was running about 80% dps off a Frenzied Bezerker III Barbarian.....

This is Pre ED days so ont be shocked the gap is wider nowadays.

I am affraid those days are long gone.

Taken from

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...reat-Axe/page3

Now I'm getting silly.. But I really like Clerics. Time to see Cleric DPS with these weapons.

-Hits on a 2-20
-Confirms at crits

Human 20 lvl Cleric: Base 30 Str (18+1adapt+5 level up+6 item)

+ rage spell (2)
+ tome (4)
+exceptional (3)
+Litany (1)
+ double madstone (4)
+ yugo pot (2)

= 46 Str. (-10 = 36/2 = 18*1.5=27 )

+damage boost IV (5)
+ Power attack + (10)
+Divine Favor +3
+Prayer (1)
+Divine Might IV (8)


=54 damage bonus.

+5 weapon enhancement

=59 damage bonus.

+ Bloodstone (seeker 6)


GS GA Acid Burst ((10.5+59)*90) +(((10.5+59+6)*5)*3) + (26.06*95) + (11*95*.075)
6255+1132.5+2475.7+78.375=9941.575 Damage over 100 hits at 50% Fort


GS FAL Acid Burst ((7+59)*80)+(((7+59+6)*15)*2) + (24.75*95) + (5.5*95*.175)
5280+2160+2351.25+91.4375= 9882.6875 Damage


**************CONCLUSION*****************

So, for a full melee specced cleric, A GA does 100.6% of the damage of a Falchion on 50% enemies. Falchion is better on everything below 50% basically.



***************BONUS*****************

Did you notice,

Barb = 12112 damage over 100 swings with an Acid Burst GS GA @ 50% Fort
Cleric = 9941.75 damage over the same.
Kensai III = 11064 damage over the same (MINUS FTR Haste boost which would move him to 14936; also doesn't include 10% double hit capstone)


Cleric = 82% of Barb dps. That's better than some of the estimates I've seen. Just sayin.

ENH Pass is looking to be a sda day for cmelee clerics indeed Vargouille....

If the possible numbers dont even remotely look close to Pre-ED comparisons then its an epic fail implementation.

Enhancement pass is supposed to blow our minds with build possibiliteis... So far its the 10/5/5 and bastard splits that are getting all the goodies.

Hope this helps light up what needs wotk.

Laters

[carpemontis]

Dp

[eachna_gislin]

So, could someone please explain to me how clerics are being "nerfed" exactly?

They're not getting any melee enhancements, i get that, but they're also not LOSING anything, since they never had those melee enhancements to begin with. The only two things I can see are that the lose divine might, and that pacifism core ability is terribad. But other than that, i really don't see how a melee cleric will be any different than they are on live?

Clerics on live get access to Divine Might, which is most definately a melee enhancement.

As of the last cleric update on Lamm...this is missing.

However, devs have explicitly stated that clerics will be getting a warpriest tree.

I have no idea if that will really happen, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

[ThePrincipal]

I'm revisiting an my older dwarf melee cleric for EDs and lvl 28 and new enchancements.

I like dwarf because of Hp/Con, spell saves, and axe damage. Pure 20 cleric all the way. Str/Cha build and was a buffer/heals cleric with melee as primary dps from greataxes. Tosss some light spells.

I believe the free +20 LR is working so I can respec feats without loosing ED xp (right?). Here's what I am leaning towards:

H Feats - greataxe, toughness, empower healing, quicken, PA, Improved Crit, Cleave
Epic Feats - great cleave, overwhelming crit, and Haste
ED Feats - Holy Strike, Forced Escape

[mobrien316]

My battle cleric is currently on his ninth life. Three past cleric lives, one fighter, one paladin, one monk, one rogue, one sorcerer. The last three were done as battle clerics with two LR's after hitting twenty. On his current life he is at level 18 (all cleric levels.)

Other than the loss of Divine Might, I haven't noticed a nerf. His HP are a bit higher, and I haven't noticed a drop off in DPS. I think the melee DPS is a bit higher as well.

Pure clerics do not have to be healbots.

[Holyshank]

The only good battle clerics I have seen have been on youtube.

As a pure cleric it ****es me off having battle clerics in a party that refuse to heal themselves and then insult the pure cleric for not keeping them alive.

If you go a battle cleric thats cool with me, just PLEASE use your mana to heal yourself and not insult us pure clerics for doing something you CAN do yourself.

[sirgog]

The only good battle clerics I have seen have been on youtube.

As a pure cleric it ****es me off having battle clerics in a party that refuse to heal themselves and then insult the pure cleric for not keeping them alive.

If you go a battle cleric thats cool with me, just PLEASE use your mana to heal yourself and not insult us pure clerics for doing something you CAN do yourself.

Oh, you had one bad experience with a melee divine? I had one bad experience recently with a Shiradi sorc that was deadweight too. Shiradi sorcs must be an awful build!



Now that responding to the troll is done, back on topic. I'm thinking Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 in heavy armor, with Str the highest stat, Cha second and Con third is the way to go at the moment. (Enough Int for skills which is actually a lot, Dex and Wis pretty low but maybe not totally dumped as they do affect Reflex saves and SP pool respectively).

Full THF chain, full cleave chain, Overwhelming Critical, Legendary Dreadnought and/or Fury of the Wild.

Stay primarily in Radiant Servant and just cherrypick from early Kensai, fairly deep into Warpriest, and the better low tier Paladin stuff.

[mobrien316]

The only good battle clerics I have seen have been on youtube.

As a pure cleric it ****es me off having battle clerics in a party that refuse to heal themselves and then insult the pure cleric for not keeping them alive.

If you go a battle cleric thats cool with me, just PLEASE use your mana to heal yourself and not insult us pure clerics for doing something you CAN do yourself.

So you saw a battle cleric who not only refused to heal anyone else, but who also refused to heal himself? So he was essentially playing a fighter without all the bonus feats and with a lower BAB and fewer weapon proficiencies AND with no self-healing?

Any idea why this person you say you saw went cleric if he refused to ever cast a heal spell or turn on his aura or use a burst?

Regardless, I would say that person is hardly representative of battle clerics.

[guardianx2009]

So you saw a battle cleric who not only refused to heal anyone else, but who also refused to heal himself? So he was essentially playing a fighter without all the bonus feats and with a lower BAB and fewer weapon proficiencies AND with no self-healing?

Any idea why this person you say you saw went cleric if he refused to ever cast a heal spell or turn on his aura or use a burst?

Regardless, I would say that person is hardly representative of battle clerics.

The battle cleric stigma comes from bad, or simply new players trying to play cleric and taking the shortcut by splashing. So instead of learning to play the core cleric aspects (redbar, mob, situation management), they focus on melee. The result is when things go south... they go south very quickly.

Sure there are good battle clerics - but there's more than a handful of bad ones. My guess is with Warpriest tree, we might see more to come..

[wtorchia]

I'm thinking Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 in heavy armor, with Str the highest stat, Cha second and Con third is the way to go at the moment. (Enough Int for skills which is actually a lot, Dex and Wis pretty low but maybe not totally dumped as they do affect Reflex saves and SP pool respectively).

Full THF chain, full cleave chain, Overwhelming Critical, Legendary Dreadnought and/or Fury of the Wild.

Stay primarily in Radiant Servant and just cherrypick from early Kensai, fairly deep into Warpriest, and the better low tier Paladin stuff.

I just TRD out of a BC that was set up like this. I only TRD because I wanted to try full caster again after 1 year as a BC. I went Half Orc. Full st, decent wis, decent char with lvl ups into st. I had top end gear on him. Red / black dragon armor, Cleaver and so on. In the Legendary dreadnought ED he hit like a truck and could take beating. I basically played him like a Paldin that could heal a raid.

[mobrien316]

The battle cleric stigma comes from bad, or simply new players trying to play cleric and taking the shortcut by splashing. So instead of learning to play the core cleric aspects (redbar, mob, situation management), they focus on melee. The result is when things go south... they go south very quickly.

Sure there are good battle clerics - but there's more than a handful of bad ones. My guess is with Warpriest tree, we might see more to come..

I agree there are bad players who call their character "battle clerics", but I have never met a single one who refused to self-heal.

[Trasak]

A bit more of a gimick character I guess but what about a 17 WP 3 Tempest Elf who dumps str(only to 13 for PA with tomes) and focuses on two weapon fighting and scimitars. You would have dex to attack and damage, (unsure of how offhand dex damage works i.e. if its half or not) around +12(+4 elf, +5 WP, +3 Tempest) to attack and damage with scimitars and your light damage add would be up more due to two weapons. A similar pitch could be made for 17WP 3 ninja Drow. On a second note I wonder if the enhancement bonuses from AA and WP stack?

[firemedium_jt]

There are plenty of bad players. It is just that you only notice the bad Clerics. We are the goaltenders like in hockey. Everyone screams and yells when a goal is scored by the other players on the team. They pat themselves on the back. But if the goal tender sucks or is having a bad day the game is still lost.

You see all the hockey players go up to the goaltender after the game win or lose to show support and thanks.

Unfortunately that does not happen to Clerics in DDO.

You are ungrateful kids most of the time.

It is why there are less Clerics than there use to be. I have seen many Clerics come and go over the years. Even the ones that liked to mostly just be in a heal role.

[wtorchia]

There are plenty of bad players. It is just that you only notice the bad Clerics. We are the goaltenders like in hockey. Everyone screams and yells when a goal is scored by the other players on the team. They pat themselves on the back. But if the goal tender sucks or is having a bad day the game is still lost.

You see all the hockey players go up to the goaltender after the game win or lose to show support and thanks.

Unfortunately that does not happen to Clerics in DDO.

You are ungrateful kids most of the time.

It is why there are less Clerics than there use to be. I have seen many Clerics come and go over the years. Even the ones that liked to mostly just be in a heal role.

We are still around. We just solo everything

[Ungood]

I imagine it would (should?) be based on the Warpriest from PnP. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.a...mp/mp20010413d

1) it's first Core Enhancement could grant proficiencies in all simple and martial weapons;
2) It could gain the "Inflame" ability that functions similar to an Inspire Courage;
3) Gain "Haste" and "Heal, Mass" as SLAs higher in the tree, not unlike the class outlined there.
4) Enhancements to bolster attack/damage with martial weapons
5) An SLA to enchant their own weapon with Holy damage
6) HP Enhancements

etc...

I think you get the idea. You would be trading up spell power and other enhancements from the casting trees to gain melee ability.

Honestly, I think Protector for both Cleric and FvS should be replaced with Warpriest... >.>

In before "OMG THATS OP!" and other similar posts that always follow class ideas that have no actual numbers.

it's not just that this is OP'ed, but it also removes the need for paladin class to exist. I see the same people time and time again boasting that Barbs should not get more healing options because "think of the paladins" but here, you and others have no qualms about asking for a PRE that all but eliminates any point for the paladin class to exist.

Irony at it's finest.

[Panzermeyer]

The only good battle clerics I have seen have been on youtube.

As a pure cleric it ****es me off having battle clerics in a party that refuse to heal themselves and then insult the pure cleric for not keeping them alive.

If you go a battle cleric thats cool with me, just PLEASE use your mana to heal yourself and not insult us pure clerics for doing something you CAN do yourself.

Those aren't battle clerics.

Those are idiots.

They would give any kind of class a bad name.

[Panzermeyer]

Now that responding to the troll is done, back on topic. I'm thinking Clr17/Pal2/Ftr1 in heavy armor, with Str the highest stat, Cha second and Con third is the way to go at the moment. (Enough Int for skills which is actually a lot, Dex and Wis pretty low but maybe not totally dumped as they do affect Reflex saves and SP pool respectively).

Full THF chain, full cleave chain, Overwhelming Critical, Legendary Dreadnought and/or Fury of the Wild.

Stay primarily in Radiant Servant and just cherrypick from early Kensai, fairly deep into Warpriest, and the better low tier Paladin stuff.

I would be interested in seeing more of a build from you sirgog, I have seen some of your others and have been impressed. I am nearing the last life of the TR train, and was planning on ending up as a cleric anyway. Something like this seems interesting.

With the feats outlined is 7, leaves one left over from the extra fighter, which I assume would go to Maximze for bursts and aura.

Seems that with the thiness maybe going human for the extra feat would be best. Though it would seem a dwarf or Half-Orc would be the best to get the most out of this smashing.

Heroic Feats:
Two Hander Lines:
THF, ITHF, GTHF

Cleave Line:
PA, Cleave, G Cleave

Criticial:
Improved Critical

Epic:
Overwhleming Critical

[Panzermeyer]

I just TRD out of a BC that was set up like this. I only TRD because I wanted to try full caster again after 1 year as a BC. I went Half Orc. Full st, decent wis, decent char with lvl ups into st. I had top end gear on him. Red / black dragon armor, Cleaver and so on. In the Legendary dreadnought ED he hit like a truck and could take beating. I basically played him like a Paldin that could heal a raid.

What feats did you have on him wtorchia?