Hoping to get some Developer eyes on this Idea for Core Enhancements

[Grayvin]

(I wrote this in the feedback box of the general class survey, but I wanted more eyes if possible and community feedback on it)

I don't know if this idea has been posted before, but for the sake of proliferation here is my version..

I'd like put forth a suggestion. I believe that auto-granting the Core Enhancements, after the first one, by the points spent in the Tree, Class levels, and Sequential Order(Left to Right), without requiring action points for each Core Enhancement, after the first one, would provide for a better player experience.

It would work similar to Epic Destinies, in that they are auto-granted, but instead of being granted by Destiny levels, they granted by the aforementioned requirements. Of course in doing this it would free up five action points, which also gives players a little more flexibility.

Optional(That I'd really like to happen): Once you are auto-granted the Core Capstone Enhancement, for your investment into the Tree and the class, you would receive one action point to compensate for your initial point spent into the Tree. (Or you would be given back the initial point spent, I figured the first option would be easier to develop, it seems to end up the same either way.)

This would of course allow for one extra action point to be spent adding a slight bit more flexibility and, on a slightly silly note, for those that are a little OCD about even numbers to have six total action points from this change instead of five. This would also give a little more incentive for getting a capstone and staying a pure class.


Thank you for reading and your time, I hope this helps.

[Grayvin]

Does anyone have feedback positive or negative on this idea?

[~I-J1NG]

Whilst the idea might sound OK, there are a few inherent flaws in it in the overall scope of the new enhancements.

Assuming all Core abilities were passive or active (and no selection) your idea might work.

However, for one thing, certain caster PrE's have selections within each Core ability, meaning you will get a default one, which breaks that PrE. So that scuppers your idea there.

Not only that, assuming you stay a pure class, it's possible to be granted 2/3 capstones instead of just the 1 if it's auto granted.

I don't think that will be accepted.

I-J1NG

[Grayvin]

In regards to the multi-selection core enhancements, I lapsed to mention, that within the change the Core Enhancement progression would essentially be "paused" until a selection was made by the player, for no action points, to continue the enhancement line. Also now that I'm reviewing this, it could even highlight the core enhancement needing to be chosen with that new white out-line that they implemented with this Lamannia update.

As for your second statement, I did think of that during the write up, I did not think it an issue for the amount of investment needed to gain two capstones. You would need 40 action points spent in each tree to obtain two capstones, as it is required now. Now if that is still an issue, they could have current live limitation where a player is restricted to one and only one capstone enhancement.

Does this solve the apparent issues with the proposed idea, and if it does are there any other unforeseen problems that we could work through?

I'd really like to see this idea come to fruition, and I'm open to all positive and negative feedback from anyone. So anyone please post your thoughts if you have them!

[~I-J1NG]

In regards to the multi-selection core enhancements, I lapsed to mention, that within the change the Core Enhancement progression would essentially be "paused" until a selection was made by the player, for no action points, to continue the enhancement line. Also now that I'm reviewing this, it could even highlight the core enhancement needing to be chosen with that new white out-line that they implemented with this Lamannia update.

The issue with this is, besides the AP being saved (between 10 to 12), it's basically what we are doing right now anyway isn't it?

We need to select each Core ability we want anyway. So what is benefited by having the devs write code that will automatically grant the Core abilities to us except for the ones that you need to select? We save what? A few mouse clicks? Doesn't seem very productive is my concern.

As for your second statement, I did think of that during the write up, I did not think it an issue for the amount of investment needed to gain two capstones. You would need 40 action points spent in each tree to obtain two capstones, as it is required now. Now if that is still an issue, they could have current live limitation where a player is restricted to one and only one capstone enhancement.

I think what you will be running into is players then arguing why can't their splash builds have a Capstone when Pure classes can have two?

It would also defeat the purpose of Capstones being valuable and sought after for just the one, and it will no longer be a "tough choice" on what to obtain. Indeed, what's the point of having a two Cleric/FvS when one can do both Capstones and allow a tank to be under Divine Intervention, with the Capstone to heal them up all alone?

If again we don't allow auto grant of the Capstone, it then begs the question of what are we adding to this? If it's only 1 Capstone only, then again, it's all selection by the player, so no need for coding it to become an auto-grant power. And instead, it's only a request for a reduction of AP needed in total (between 10-12 in total for two class trees), which doesn't really sound like an improvement, but sounds a bit more like asking for a tiny bit more from the available 80 AP to the Devs if I was to be honest.

To be honest, I can make some wild builds with another 10-12 AP, but I'd go back to how it would benefit players possibly a bit too much. The enhancement system needs to be about "tough choices", and allowing too much may stifle this and it simply becomes another "How much more power can we get out of it", rather than "Do I want more defense from Defensive Strikes? Or more Ki regeneration from Contemplation?". Tough choices like that appear to be what the Dev's are trying to make players feel over selecting Enhancements over other Enhancements. And too many points available may break that feeling down too much. But that's just my opinion really.

I-J1NG

[Grayvin]

In response to your first statement, yes it is what you're saying. It is supposed to be proposed as a simple idea to add some more flexibility through extra action points to players. Along the way also adding a slight bit of convenience and similar experience for the Epic Destinies later to come in the characters life span.

That part is meant to be more new player friendly. It's not that clicking is hard, like I said it's more about consistency through systems. I know it doesn't seem extremely productive but it's meant to be a simple change, more like a fine detail. Some people like the little details they count a lot to them.

I understand what you're saying with your second sentiment, players will inevitably say the grass is greener on the other side. My opinion on that has been formed from things I've seen within the forums stating that pure builds aren't powerful enough and are not worth not splashing, for more power.

The thing is, if a player wanted to gain two capstones, that player would have to devote all 80 action points within those two trees equally. Leaving none to be spent elsewhere, such as a racial tree. Now some people would be willing to do that and say that's not a big deal, but in reality it's still a trade off and not always a good one. This is my opinion though, so others may not agree.

[Huldrekall]

I'd like put forth a suggestion. I believe that auto-granting the Core Enhancements, after the first one, by the points spent in the Tree, Class levels, and Sequential Order(Left to Right), without requiring action points for each Core Enhancement, after the first one, would provide for a better player experience.

I agree, same opinion. autogranted based on class lvl and points spend in tree.

It would work similar to Epic Destinies, in that they are auto-granted, but instead of being granted by Destiny levels, they granted by the aforementioned requirements. Of course in doing this it would free up five action points, which also gives players a little more flexibility.

it actualy give you more AP, some core abilities cost 2AP.

Optional(That I'd really like to happen): Once you are auto-granted the Core Capstone Enhancement, for your investment into the Tree and the class, you would receive one action point to compensate for your initial point spent into the Tree. (Or you would be given back the initial point spent, I figured the first option would be easier to develop, it seems to end up the same either way.)

Im not sure if I understand you. I think race core should be autogranted all, coz was born that way in case of core-class tree, also all autogranted, but in Prestige we should pay that firts, others just autogranted. prestige sould always cost you that initial point, coz whole prestige is like one huge perk package.

Thank you for reading and your time, I hope this helps.

thank you
so this is my feedback on your feedback

[Grayvin]

I agree, same opinion. autogranted based on class lvl and points spend in tree.

Thank you for seeing that as well, it's a simple idea but I like it.

it actualy give you more AP, some core abilities cost 2AP.

Now that is surprising, that may cause issues, then again the developers are still tweaking things. I was hoping for a standardization among the core enhancements, meaning them costing only one action point across the board, when I was writing this change up.

Im not sure if I understand you. I think race core should be autogranted all, coz was born that way in case of core-class tree, also all autogranted, but in Prestige we should pay that firts, others just autogranted. prestige sould always cost you that initial point, coz whole prestige is like one huge perk package.

I see what you're saying about the racial trees, I didn't think of that. I guess you can't have more than one race at a time lol. So yes auto granting all of the racial core enhancements based on level and points spent in tree does make sense, I like that idea. To your second part, I wanted there to be a tiny benefit for reaching the capstone. Because I have seen quite a few people that think that pure classes don't get enough for staying pure.

thank you
so this is my feedback on your feedback

Thank you for your feedback on my feedback lol!

[Grayvin]

Does anyone have any more feedback they would like to share?

[coolpenguin410]

I like it. As far as the argument against multiple capstone, you could still require 41 AP spent in one tree for the capstone to unlock. With a 80 AP cap, that means only 1 capstone is feasible. It still allows for a quite a bit of flexibility and customization.

[LilyOphelia]

You're basically asking for extra enhancement points, since the core abilities already give very nice/useful perks. If core enhancements (even the first one) were free, you'd probably want to put 5-10 points in all 6 class trees (30-60 points), just so you'd rake in the extra 6-12 enhancement points you wouldn't have to spend under the current system.

Considering you can get some pretty amazing things from the core enhancements, I think they should be left as is.

Here's an interesting question for you though. What if the core enhancements didn't cost APs, but you had less APs to spend (60-70APs at level 20, versus the 80 now). Or, what if they gave you the same number of APs, but scaled back some of the neater abilities in the trees (20% instead 30% on haste action boosts, for example) so that each of your APs purchased less.

Overall, I think what you're asking for is more "power" when you suggest changes like free Core enhancements.