Secret Doors!

[zwiebelring]

im surprised more haven't spoken up about the easy xp from secret doors. whenever there are threads on -10% xp from dying, theres always people who speak up and say "that's like losing X xp per life.. rant, rant, rant rant".

I really do not know, why you would try to make something old interesting by implementing a time sink for their own created longterm motivation, as it is now. This change is nice for exploring, but come on, the game is played differently, if you are a vet.

So, who is the crowd they want to attend? Vet.s? Or new players? The only thing I see is that they do not care about vet.s, who play this game by planning(!) with past lives and have a so not casual attitude any more.

I see this change as a complete ignorant move towards longterm players, who are happy otherwise in spending money for their game experience. Ignorant, because it addresses a minor concern of some vet.s. especially those, who plan with more than one past life feat.

And then there is my former statement of an easy bailout. Actually all secret doors are magically hidden doors. Instead of implementing mundane and magically hidden doors they nerf items. More and more utility of items is replaced by combat relevance only.

Another point is the definition of 'making it interesting'. Why would their impression be mine? I found secret doors boring from day one of Open Beta in 2005 or when wit started. The animation is simple and functional but not immersive whatsoever. Should I stop at secret doors now and say:

''Unbelievable, it is a secret door. Let us find out and explore that tiny room in Bringing the Light. There might be inconceivable amounts of treasure in there. This is so interesting now.''

It boils down to: will my current items for secret door revealing be still worth it or am I forced to skip several easy xp bonuses?

[Llewndyn]

I am astonished that with all the issues with this game you actually bothered spending time on something this trivial.

This is the poison immunity nonsense all over again.

You just made me agree with Teh_Troll. Bad Turbine, BAAAAAD!!!!

Actually, on second thought... while it COULD be good, just make sure that "fixing" secret door detection doesn't break something else, like the ability to list aimlessly off to the left to lose mobs.

[Teh_Troll]

You just made me agree with Teh_Troll. Bad Turbine, BAAAAAD!!!!

The cult of Teh_Troll is always accepting new initiates. Agreeing with me is a natural part of evolution, prepare to ascend into a higher life-form.

[oradafu]

im surprised more haven't spoken up about the easy xp from secret doors. whenever there are threads on -10% xp from dying, theres always people who speak up and say "that's like losing X xp per life.. rant, rant, rant rant".

I pretty much wrote off the extra XP from the hidden doors with this change. Like many things in this update, it's something the Devs want and they aren't changing it. Or when they change it for the worse (see Divine Might as an example).

Arguing about XP with the Devs never EVER leads to more xp for players when Lamannia is shown. Look at the "placeholder" numbers for the Heroic quests in the Expansion which are a fraction of the XP found in flagging Vale quests. Those numbers didn't move since the quests have been on Lamannia. The numbers for quest XP never move when they are shown on Lamannia. So arguing about XP on Lamannia is futile.

The Devs don't want to readjust XP for those quests that almost every player agrees needs more XP: those upper Heroic quests in House C and Amarth, among others.

The Devs do like to strip XP from players, we can just point to Challenges as an example.

With these changes, does the Secret Door XP not include ALL secret doors now? No, because only doors that were detected by DSD and TS are part of the Secret Door bonus. So should all the secret doors be part of the bonus now? I think so, because the underline mechanic for secret doors has changed, so doors like in Bringing the Light. Of course, since the XP is tied to a certain mechanic, players are getting it the hard way again without lotion.

I don't even foresee the Devs giving the Finding Secret Doors bonus a boost from the current 8%/10%/15% since they've made things more difficult for us. Should they? Yes, I think so. There should be some sort of trade off for taking some toys from us that weren't part of an exploit (in fact we were using the items exactly what they were used for) by giving us some goodies back. Will it happen? Of course not.

[zwiebelring]

Addendum: Bringing The Light was an example by me for known doors, which aren't interesting in any way. It is not a common magically hidden door like those in waterwroks slayer area, iirc.

[oradafu]

Addendum: Bringing The Light was an example by me for known doors, which aren't interesting in any way. It is not a common magically hidden door like those in waterwroks slayer area, iirc.

Personally, I'd put it as a secret door since it just looks like a wall until you hit the runes. I don't see where it's functionally any different then the hidden secret doors that the Troglodytes are behind in Durk's Got a Secret. Unless you pull the levers to open the door (or meta the map), you wouldn't know that those were doors; although the Brining the Light is less obvious because Durk's are in doorway arches.

Now the door that Muck is hidden behind would qualify in my mind as a known door.

I get what you're saying though. But I guess we'll just agree to disagree on the Bringing the Light door.

[RuneDude]

Just my opinion on this. something simple:

make detecting secret doors similar to traps (spotting and searching) with similar DCs to traps, going up with level and difficulty, and the detection spells just give a buff to search for the purpose of detecting secret doors with a automatic chance for low DC's.

Detect Secret Door spell: Detects doors of DC 20 (or whatever) or lower automatically, as normal with same duration. also for the duration gives +10 to active search checks for the purposes of detecting secret doors. at 7th 25 or lower, and +20 to search, at 13th 30 or lower or +30 to search. so the clickies and wands would still be good at low levels for most doors, and for those with at least a moderate investment in search able to probably get most of them.

Detect Secret Door item enchantment: detects doors of 20 (the lowest DC of the spell) but +20 to search for doors.

True Seeing: Detects doors of 25+caster level (no cap) or less (or something high, most doors on heroic, but not as good on epics unless actually casting with full levels and not scrolls, items will based on caster level of item as normal), with no bonus to active search checks. the spell only reveals what it can, does not aid.

Add some more doors to quests here and there, extra chests or just collectibles with DC's for those with only a good investment in searching for doors can get, and possibly increasing the xp bonus on finding ALL secret doors.

[moonprophet]

ok this is bull how the hell do you expect quests that don't need people that need to disable traps and such that don't even have a very high spot to even detect these doors to begin with sense you really don't need to spot anything. I say leave it cause most of the time people don't even bother with optionals in quests that are behind hidden doors

So, I am not people then I guess. Us patient, adult types, that actually enjoy the quests as much, if not more, then the loot they supply, DO the optionals. I for one am glad that the points in spot, search, heal, listen, and repair are being made relevant again.

That being said, I also agree that there were bigger fish to fry than messing with this mechanic to begin with. Put some of the bored designers to the task of actually listening to the player base and giving us 1 or 2 of the things we ask for. Just a thought.