*** Dodge Changes ****

[Teh_Troll]

Changes to existing items: Below are some notable changes that are retroactive:

Dodge bonuses:
Dodge bonuses have been doubled in value.
Items that had +1% dodge now have +2% dodge.
Items that had +2% dodge now have +4% dodge.
Items that had +3% dodge now have +6% dodge.
Items that had +4% dodge now have +8% dodge.
Dodge bonuses of different numerical values no longer stack.

Not sure if I like this or hate this yet. Sell me on this please.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-6-27-2013%29

[Teh_Troll]

Now we can get a . . .

4+3+2+1 = 10% from items. "Soon" we can get 8% from items (10% from new items).

2% dodge one way or the other really doesn't matter . . . and it frees up some gear slots so that's nice.


Not . . . sure . . . if nerfed . . .

[Enoach]

I saw this and have to admit that my first thought was wow this frees up some gear spots, and possibly opens up for "Re-augmenting" some items that I have with Dodge.

Currently I don't have access to a +4% Dodge Item so for me my +3% + 2% + 1% (Three items) means I only need the one that was 3% as it will be 6% dodge or a wash.

I can see those that had all 4 might have an issue, just not sure how easy it is to have all 4 in ones gear set, again because I don't have a 4% dodge item.

I'm on the fence but actually leaning towards this being a positive change - but that might be bias as it is a wash in amount and I get two gear slots back, so it is net positive for myself.

[Teh_Troll]

I'm on the fence but actually leaning towards this being a positive change - but that might be bias as it is a wash in amount and I get two gear slots back, so it is net positive for myself.

At the most you lose 2% dodge . . . if you devote 3-4 friggin slots to dodge.

Thinking a positive.

[terrenceknight1]

This change and the way they word it has me wondering how its going to affect the Dodge/Mobility/Spring attack line and if the 'non stacking' will also apply to feats and the revised bonus on haste for 1% dodge.

[Gkar]

Hmm...I think this is a balanced change, if not a positive one, at least in terms of the items on their own.

But I also wonder about feats and enhancements - any impact on them?

[Vargouille]

Feats and enhancements will continue to stack unless the bonuses have explicit types associated with them, in which case they work like any other bonuses. They no longer have the unique special snowflake status of stacking if and only if they are different values.

[Dreppo]

Now we can get a . . .

4+3+2+1 = 10% from items. "Soon" we can get 8% from items (10% from new items).

2% dodge one way or the other really doesn't matter . . . and it frees up some gear slots so that's nice.


Not . . . sure . . . if nerfed . . .

Not a nerf, I'd say. You'll be able to get to 10% with a single item. From the release notes:
•Notable new effects to find include Improved Vorpal, Energy Absorption, and Doubleshot, +10% Dodge, among many others.

[redoubt]

The good:

doubling the dodge value is good. its also balanced because it is capped by your max dex bonus, so you can't just go crazy too easy.

The bad:

We lose some max bonus compared to what we have now. (I don't think the mythical 10% item we might find some day counts as covering this yet.)

the ugly:

It removes options. Its great for someone with a low mdb who doesn't really want to invest as it makes it easier for them to more dodge and be more survivable, but it removes the option to deeply invest in dodge... you can no longer "specialize" here if you want. You are creating a situation were a 8% dodge item become the only item that matters and is a pseudo-requirement.

Allow them to stack. Even if someone wants to wear all of them... 10 + 8 + 6 + 4 + 2 = 30. overpowered? No.
1. its capped at 25... so you have OPTIONS to pick which ones to use together to get your dodge from.
2. you have to a mdb of 25. Anyone who has that is sacrificing PRR for dodge.... its a tradeoff and an option. The proposed system rewards players with lower mdb and those who don't want to invest. Those who are unwilling to choose and just want the max value of everything.

Please allow the stacking (even if you have to remove the double effect) and keep character and gear planning complicated enough that we have to think about it and make actual choices.

Thanks for your time.

[Tevain]

With 10% now being possible on randon gen loot will at least some items, for example ES-Challenge Cloaks or the Idol of Fortune, bumped a Tier so that those high level named items will not be outshone by random gen ?

[Noctus]

I like this change.

Makes gearing a little bit easier, and brings Dodge in line with how all the other itemboni work (aka items generally dont stack in DDO).


But...

i sincerly hope that enhancements / Epic Destinys / class abilities still stack! Otherwise a lot of options would suddenly loose their reason for existing.

[Atremus]

At first I was raging over this change. But after a few hours of contemplation, this seems OK to me. My current monk has Dodge (feat), Epic bracers of Wind (3%), and the amulet of the storm Reaver (4%)

With this change I can drop my Bracers, Slot in Twisting Shade for the attack bonus and come out ahead in the total Dodge value by 1% while picking up some attack bonus.

[Thrudh]

At first I was raging over this change. But after a few hours of contemplation, this seems OK to me. My current monk has Dodge (feat), Epic bracers of Wind (3%), and the amulet of the storm Reaver (4%)

With this change I can drop my Bracers, Slot in Twisting Shade for the attack bonus and come out ahead in the total Dodge value by 1% while picking up some attack bonus.

Yeah I can make it work for me too... Probably a good change... Just feels wrong somehow. Maybe that's just my normal resistance to change.

[Thrudh]

It removes options. Its great for someone with a low mdb who doesn't really want to invest as it makes it easier for them to more dodge and be more survivable, but it removes the option to deeply invest in dodge... you can no longer "specialize" here if you want. You are creating a situation were a 8% dodge item become the only item that matters and is a pseudo-requirement.

This... I should be happy that it makes gearing easier, but it also ruins some gear (all current 1% and 2% dodge items are pretty worthless now), and it makes us more cookie-cutter... I had one guy who focused on dodge, maxing it out... I guess I should be happy it's easier now... But it makes him less different from my other characters.

How is Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack handled? What about Mobility on an item?

you have to a mdb of 25. Anyone who has that is sacrificing PRR for dodge.... its a tradeoff and an option. The proposed system rewards players with lower mdb and those who don't want to invest. Those who are unwilling to choose and just want the max value of everything.

This... It's probably a good change, but my gut reaction is that it's taking away a tradeoff decision. And hard trade-off decisions are what makes this game great.

[redoubt]

This... I should be happy that it makes gearing easier, but it also ruins some gear (all current 1% and 2% dodge items are pretty worthless now), and it makes us more cookie-cutter... I had one guy who focused on dodge, maxing it out... I guess I should be happy it's easier now... But it makes him less different from my other characters.

How is Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack handled? What about Mobility on an item?



This... It's probably a good change, but my gut reaction is that it's taking away a tradeoff decision. And hard trade-off decisions are what makes this game great.

Exactly.

[Wizza]

How do you people even like this? You lose 2% dodge AND the option to CHOOSE. With this, you will be pidgeholed in a build with a 8% dodge somewhere, in an epic item. Horray with the same build everyone!

The core feature of this game was always managing the stacking bonuses that you character had, creating interesting build based on trade offs. Now, there is no trade off. Throw away your items, you just need an 8% one.

[Standal]

Does this mean that all gear stacking is now out? Skills stacking is out, now dodge stacking is out. Is heal amp next? I'm not sure if I'm strongly or against this. Stacking HA and Dodge and taking a fighter splash made my barb "defensive". Now he just gets his 8% dodge like everybody else with a ML24 Mabar cloak or a Dun'Robar ring. I definitely was having trouble fitting in everything, but I think that it's going to be a lot less interesting gearing out a character.

[Deadlock]

How do you people even like this? You lose 2% dodge AND the option to CHOOSE. With this, you will be pidgeholed in a build with a 8% dodge somewhere, in an epic item. Horray with the same build everyone!

The core feature of this game was always managing the stacking bonuses that you character had, creating interesting build based on trade offs. Now, there is no trade off. Throw away your items, you just need an 8% one.

There's a Dodge +10% item being added, so you won't lose anything. Not clear whether it'll be in random lootgen stuff or if it'll become an augment that you can slot. An augment would be my preference.

[Deathlos]

Just adding my input from what i have tested,

As varg put in, enchantments and feats all stack, currently i have a 14rogue/monk who has capped Dodge without any items
So dodge certainly isnt going away, and is easier to find in most situations

also adding in more defensive stats across the board really...

i mean, with this 1st life char i have max dodge, 121AC, 132 PRR, 832HP, 120%Fort with just the dojo gear...
Tho i do have to say, getting all the Twists of fate to do this wouldnt be easy on live, unless of course you already had em, but thats besides the point. and does take away some dmg, but with the Dex to dmg they are adding it could be alot worse for being able to solo EE without a hireling.