Enable Multiclass For Casters

[Lauf]

At the moment casters rarely multiclass for the simple reason caster levels make up for spell damage. losing caster levels means a significant drop in damage done.

just like taking caster levels doesn't mean you don't get any increase to BaB, but rather get a smaller increase to it, I believe that taking non-caster levels on a caster shouldn't give you no increase to your caster level, but rather a smaller increase. (I believe BaB increase is two thirds for caster levels, so something along those lines)

It has been suggested before me, but I could not find the thread so forgive me for starting a new one.

[Rusty_Can]

At the moment casters rarely multiclass for the simple reason caster levels make up for spell damage. losing caster levels means a significant drop in damage done.

Actually, plenty of multiclassed casters out there: 2 monks for Evasion and 2 feats, 2 rogue for Evasion and trap skills, 2 paladin for saves, 2 fighter for feats and proficiencies and so on ...... list is kinda long.

Moreover, several spells cap their damage way before character level cap: thus a shallow splash doesn't actually hurt that much your damage output and, furthermore, the small loss can be made up resorting to buffs and equipment.

just like taking caster levels doesn't mean you don't get any increase to BaB, but rather get a smaller increase to it [...] (I believe BaB increase is two thirds for caster levels, so something along those lines)

Every class follows some BaB progression and BaB progressions stack; sorcerers and wizards are 1:2 classes.

I believe that taking non-caster levels on a caster shouldn't give you no increase to your caster level, but rather a smaller increase.

Since caster levels from different caster classes don't stack, why levels in non-caster classes should increase your caster level?

/not signed

What has been proposed several times is the implementation of the Practiced Spellcaster feat.

[supott]

id think the DC's and the spells given by level are the bigger factors than damage here. A 17 Cleric/Wiz/Sorc would seem the most to allow lvl 9 spells. A 12 Splash of Wiz/Cleric wouldn't achieve enough DC to hit monsters unless no save, but the no save spells come at the higher lvls like Polar Ray/Black Dragon Bolt. Even if damage were buffed, most spells would have a hard time hitting except for these, and would still require an investment in the stat needed.

A Finger of Death & Circle of Death are available at lvl 11 but would have -3 DC if not heightened to lvl 9 spell level, which would need lvl 17.

[supott]

sorry, finger of death a lvl7 spell so thats a lvl 13 wiz.. Polar Ray and Black Dragon come at lvl 15 so a 15 Wiz might work, and would only get a -1 to Total DC if using heighten. Damage wise, i think it can still be pretty decent though

[psykopeta]

At the moment casters rarely multiclass for the simple reason caster levels make up for spell damage. losing caster levels means a significant drop in damage done.

just like taking caster levels doesn't mean you don't get any increase to BaB, but rather get a smaller increase to it, I believe that taking non-caster levels on a caster shouldn't give you no increase to your caster level, but rather a smaller increase. (I believe BaB increase is two thirds for caster levels, so something along those lines)

It has been suggested before me, but I could not find the thread so forgive me for starting a new one.

i would suggest the opposite thing:

give better stuff for having high lvls of same class, casters worth getting 16 lvls in the class (use to be where most spells have the damage capped and u'll lose only the 3rd pre, if exists, also u would get lvl 8 spells, that 1 dc less than max) in the other hand non caster...

have very few variations related to caster because there's no real point getting 18 nor 16 lvls in em, that's why u'll see mostly 12/13-7/6-1/2, sometimes even a 7-7-6 or 8-6-6

also u know there's a really big chance that 6 lvls will be monk/fighter because the feats

so, the suggestion would be, give something more than only bab/random stuff to non caster toons (monks and fighters are ok with that 4 feats at lvl 6 lol)

also, losing 3-4 dc isnt a big loss if you take the right feats and max casting stat, as example: bard and arti cast lvl 6 spells and work nicely

[droid327]

Its not the CL that's the problem, its mostly the fact that low- and mid-tier spells usually aren't good enough on their own to warrant the levels it takes to acquire them. That and, being low-tier (and not being able to Heighten them to L9), they're going to have several points less DC than spells cast by a pure.

Especially when you get to endgame, and you're trying to squeeze every last point into your DCs to make your spells usable, all those lost points make it nigh-on impossible to effectively cast offensive spells as a light-splash caster.

Which, arguably, is a good thing, since melee classes are so front-loaded and not as level-based as casters (its more just about feats and STR and what weapons you have). If you could take a 12/6/2 melee/caster hybrid, for instance, and have 80% of the melee power of a pure Fighter, plus 70% of the casting power of a pure Wizard, then you're 150% more powerful than a pure character, and then nobody would NOT multi-class.

[FalseFlag]

You should probably learn how the system works before suggesting changes.
Casters do get additional BAB at certain levels. Which makes sense, since everyone fights. Additional caster levels for non -caster classes doesn't make sense, since not everyone casts spells.
Plenty of MC caster builds out there.



/not signed, dumb idea

[Missing_Minds]

No, OP. You do not want to further rewrite a game system more than it already has been.

However, if you want to put in your support for the feat of Practiced Spellcaster, I'd be supportive of that.

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-ar...lcaster--2231/

[Phidius]

Samius had posted a thread requesting dev feedback on the alleged "unbalancing" of the Practised Spellcaster feat before the forums were corrupted, but if memory serves no one was able to give him an example of how the feat would break the game by creating super-casters. At least, no example that was admitted to be over-powered by anyone other than the person who submitted it...

Most people simply don't understand how the feat works, and the mountain of work that would be required to educate everyone is simply not worth the effort. If you were still able to read the thread, you'd quickly get tired of how often people's misconception of the feat had to be corrected, and even then they were still against it.

@droid327: The prejudice against heavily multi classed casters is so deep that if a 12/6/2 abomination had 95% melee of a pure fighter and 95% casting power of a pure caster, they'd still be seen as gimped.

Op, while I appreciate your passion for multiclassing casters, I think you'd be better off making the argument that spell penetration from different classes should stack. That would be more fitting, since one of the loading tips specifies that Spell Resistance is like armor class for spells... therefore, Spell Penetration should behave similarly to BaB.

IMHO.