My friend had 4.5kTP in AS stolen from him today...

[Manasdirge]

one of my friend got cheated too,and received the same mail quoting House,that must be the same loser,that shameless one still dares to show up in LFM with his little band,bet he will get banned before long.

[TrinityTurtle]

Why not just buy the expansion? Why buy turbine points, buy astral shards with them, then trade the shards to another player for an expansion code? To say this is the hard risky way to something really simple is an understatement.

This is true of life in general. You wouldn't hand a total stranger $60 because he promised to go to gamestop and pick up a game for you would you? Why is doing it on the internet any different?

It is entirely possible this freind didn't BUY the astral shards, but earned them selling ee loot or frds or some other pricey things in the Asah (or possibly just never spends his vip stuff and had a backlog), which could be the real root of the problem. I find it strange also that he would spend the cash on the shards but not just buy the expansion, and suspicion that might be the case. And the op put the approximate value of the tp on there to make it a stronger sounding loss. It's entirely possible the person wanted to get something of value to him for no actual cost.

It doesn't change that the guy that stole the shards is still a thief with low class and no morals. Doesn't change that I don't believe Turbine is liable for trades to avoid actually just buying the product directly, however. Buyer beware at the end of the day. Astral shards were meant to trade for things in game, that's what they were created for. Using them to trade for game codes outside the game is clearly not something they were intended for, and equally clearly not something Turbine should be involved in. Just like the otto's boxes. If people want to do it, they should be very cautious, and get references for the people they are trading with, but they are taking their own risks. But I do think the guy should be shut out of the community, and I think Turbine overnannies with the rules about not talking about other players on the forum. If someone does something bad, people should be able to warn others. And I say that understanding the potential for abuse. But if we worry about something being abused every time we try to do something, we'll all turn into slugs who lay on the ground and do nothing until we die.

[slarden]

There was another scammed person that reported this on the general forum but the post was removed - most likely because they named the person that was doing the scamming.

I am not sure why scamming with game code trades isn't enough to be a violation of policy, but apparently it's not because the same person with the same exact character name is still trying to trade to get in-game items for game codes. It doesn't seem like Turbine will stop it because it's considered a trade issue rather than a violation of the code of conduct.

Most of the people getting scammed most likely don't check the forums, but just in case - the same person was still offering expansion codes for in-game items a few days ago so I would strongly advice against trading for codes.

I am not sure how people fall for these things, but then again I never understand how people fall for the deposed prince offering a million $ in exchange for helping with a transaction that involves the victim sending money.

[Citzen_Gkar]

My buddy [insert fake name here, lets say felicity] agreed with [insert other fake name here, lets say, J] that felicity buys him Astral shards with 4.5k TP and in return J gives him a pre-order code for the expansion. He bought the shards and traded him them, then J logged off. later he sent him a mail saying: "Gregory House:"Everybody Lies"", and another PM saying "haha, gotcha". Now from what I understand and told him the fact he gave him the shards without items in return or some kind of protection items (something worth a lot) means he just lost it all. though he contacted support and they told him they cant do anything (which is a lie), but now they sent him a mail a senior GM is working on it. anyone else thinks J should be banned and felicity should be given back his 4.5k TP?

No, its not a lie, its company policy. GMs can not do anything about that because, as we have been repeatedly told, such transactions are not supported or backed by Turbine and are at your own risk. There is in fact a solid argument that your friend felicity should be the one banned under the EULA/TOS.

And no, J shouldn't be banned, but of course no one should trade with or play with them either.

And never trade $ items for things unless you know the person, or at least the guild's reputation.

[EvilII]

[...] shouldn't be banned, [...].

If the facts can be verified and his account(s) can be tracked, he absolutely should.

Did the person who tried to make this trade do something stupid? Yes he did. Should we allow all con men to roam free without repercussions, since they are only conning gullible people? No, I don't think so. But then, I'm not a con man.

As I said in the deleted thread, if you have the power to verify the facts and ban a person that did this, but you chose not to, then you are enabling him to be a thief and you are in fact not much better than he is. Not to mention you are letting him kill your business and take a dump all over your good name.

[Hokiewa]

If the facts can be verified and his account(s) can be tracked, he absolutely should.

Did the person who tried to make this trade do something stupid? Yes he did. Should we allow all con men to roam free without repercussions, since they are only conning gullible people? No, I don't think so. But then, I'm not a con man.

As I said in the deleted thread, if you have the power to verify the facts and ban a person that did this, but you chose not to, then you are enabling him to be a thief and you are in fact not much better than he is. Not to mention you are letting him kill your business and take a dump all over your good name.

I highly doubt a scam trade is responsible for killing Turbine's business.

[arminius]

If the guy gets his moral philosophy from House, then he is more pathetic than any of us. Just pity him and chalk it up to lessons learned.

[Veles]

But I do think the guy should be shut out of the community, and I think Turbine overnannies with the rules about not talking about other players on the forum. If someone does something bad, people should be able to warn others.

This, absolutely. If everything can be proven, that guy/account/toons life should be a living hell on the server.
If I had any real proof, I would probably give some stuff to the "victim". Just because.
But it's never going to happen.

[marinerfan]

I am not sure how people fall for these things, but then again I never understand how people fall for the deposed prince offering a million $ in exchange for helping with a transaction that involves the victim sending money.

But...but...all he wanted was my name, address, social security #, and bank account #...how could he use those against me

[moomooprincess]

We know who the player is.

A player like this can certainly ruin a game for many others and will probably try to do it again.

[debo]

We know who the player is.

A player like this can certainly ruin a game for many others and will probably try to do it again.

As long as there are people who don't get there code first before doing the trade these types of things will always happen, if not by that person it will be another person. Since turbine does not police it, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing it besides trust.

[Karavek]

My buddy [insert fake name here, lets say felicity] agreed with [insert other fake name here, lets say, J] that felicity buys him Astral shards with 4.5k TP and in return J gives him a pre-order code for the expansion. He bought the shards and traded him them, then J logged off. later he sent him a mail saying: "Gregory House:"Everybody Lies"", and another PM saying "haha, gotcha". Now from what I understand and told him the fact he gave him the shards without items in return or some kind of protection items (something worth a lot) means he just lost it all. though he contacted support and they told him they cant do anything (which is a lie), but now they sent him a mail a senior GM is working on it. anyone else thinks J should be banned and felicity should be given back his 4.5k TP?

Sorry but no mercy nor sympathy from me on this one. All MMO have a standard practice of no help for non sanctioned trades. Any form of trading outside of their trade system is a non sanctioned trade no less wrong then chinese gold farming. Turbine and Turbine alone has the right to offer TP or allow legal vendors the right to in the form of code cards and digital codes. Yes we can choose to go outside the system to use these aquired codes, especially the bigger rarer ones, to try to hoard them for a time when their value balloons, but turbine is in no way responsible if someone wants to take and not pay. I do it frequently in MMO myself to actually discourage such illegal trades.

Now to explain a real way to scam, and that will incur punishment if it is practiced and is seen in many MMO. You take an item, any item of high value, and then find a trash item with an identical icon. Then when you open a trade window, initially put in the valuable item, then force a DC. Come back asap, if the mark is still around and sounds eager when you PM him about having bad weather etc and need to hurry, then put up the trash item, if your lucky the fool will be in such a hurry they will fork over the cash into the trade window and hit accept with no thought to examine the item. As long as all PMs where kept vague, any attempt by the other player to get you into trouble with admin can be deflected by a simple player is being an unhappy customer line.

[Ykt]

That will teach your friend a cheap lesson (only $30): don't trust strangers on the internet.
Knowing that can save you thousands of dollars, your work, your family and even your life (and virginity).

[Satyriasys]

Felicity should not get her refund, lesson learned. J should still be banned for being a d-bag.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

Sorry but no mercy nor sympathy from me on this one. All MMO have a standard practice of no help for non sanctioned trades. Any form of trading outside of their trade system is a non sanctioned trade no less wrong then chinese gold farming. Turbine and Turbine alone has the right to offer TP or allow legal vendors the right to in the form of code cards and digital codes. Yes we can choose to go outside the system to use these aquired codes, especially the bigger rarer ones, to try to hoard them for a time when their value balloons, but turbine is in no way responsible if someone wants to take and not pay. I do it frequently in MMO myself to actually discourage such illegal trades.

Sorry, but while I agree that my sympathy for the victim is small, you're essentially admitting to doing the same thing and saying you're doing them good by teaching them a lesson. It's like saying I only robbed a bank to show the bank that they need better security. I did a GOOD THING!

So, please stop trying to make your wrongdoings look nice. Theft is still theft, no matter how naive the victim.

Felicity should not get her refund, lesson learned. J should still be banned for being a d-bag.

This.

[sirgog]

Was the TP purchased with a credit card?

If so your friend might want to file a complaint with their local police (for obtaining property through deception). They don't need to go any further, just file a crime report and send a copy of it to the GM you are dealing with at Turbine. It's pretty untested in law as to what would happen if the case went to court (most precedents I've heard of in Europe would imply that it would be considered actual fraud; but I do not know about the US) but you won't need to go further than filing a report.

That will definitely get the person involved permabanned and likely would see a senior GM reverse the transactions, as Turbine do not ever want to be receiving subpoenas demanding the identity of their players.

If the TP were (all) acquired through in-game means, I'm not sure the police would accept a crime report. (They won't investigate it either way but if it's a real money theft they will likely accept a report).

[Charononus]