Let's Talk Rogue

[NeedHelp]

I’ve been playing with this build wanting to play a pure rogue shadow ninja. My goal is to build a character that is good for teaming and that I can play solo with hireling assistance when I don’t have the time to team. Plus I like the slow and sneaking dungeon crawling play style and think rogues are loads of fun to play this way. I don’t really want to Pug this character but more for regular teaming with some regular folks on the weekend. This is also my first try at creating a build and I’m trying to understand the Rogue class and Half-Elf race and their features.

My first try was a complete miss. I tried to split level up attribute points between Str, Dex, Con, and Int and never took TWF which after some feedback from educated players I learned I had gimped my rogue terribly. So I went back to the drawing board assimilating all the good points from the feedback I received. I played with two builds one with Fighter Dilettante and the other with Barbarian Dilettante.

Why Barb? Because it opens up two additional Toughness enhancements for Rogues, as well as a Constitution increase. And because this is a first life 28pt build I was advised to go Dex-based and finesse for weapons feature.

With Fighter Dilettante I need 13 Str and gain Fighter Toughness enhancement and Strength increase which doesn’t make up the loss of hit-points I gain with Barb Dile IMO. I’m probably missing an extra bonus for choosing this Dile that I probably don’t see. I just don’t like the low hit-points.

Artificer Dile was also suggested for this build but I don’t have access to this class in game and I’m not sure if I can speak to a trainer if I don’t have access to the class in character creation. The advantage for Art Dile is the extra Int and UMD bonus. But with all the SP I get raising UMD isn’t a problem IMO. I may be wrong but I didn’t really look into this Dile because, like I said, I don’t have this class open yet.

Why Half Elf? For the extra bonus the race provides to Bluff, the extra Elf Dex, and Dile features.

What I’m looking for is some feedback about the build and discussion about rogue gear I should be looking for. Any advice you can give me in the gear I can craft for myself would be helpful. Plus I want to know if I should change Toughness for Critical Hit feature that I didn’t take but being told I should?

Half-Elf Rogue 28pts with Barbarian Dilettante

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Thief Lyn 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 286
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 18
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    12
Dexterity            16                    23
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         15                    20
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    28
Bluff                -1                    23
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                3                    21
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  7                    37
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  1                    15
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         7                    37
Open Lock             7                    28
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    21
Swim                  1                     1
Tumble                7                    16
Use Magic Device      3                    21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Bluff (+5)
Skill: Jump (+5)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Improved Hide III
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Half-Elf Rogue 28pts with Fighter Dilettante

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Thief Lyn 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 224
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 18
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             13                    14
Dexterity            16                    23
Constitution         13                    13
Intelligence         15                    20
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    29
Bluff                -1                    18
Concentration         1                     1
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    28
Haggle                3                    22
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  7                    38
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  1                    12
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         7                    38
Open Lock             7                    29
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    28
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                7                    16
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Improved Hide III
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III

[rayworks]

Take barb dillie. The weapons a rogue has proficiency in are fine. Go with rapiers for the crit range. Rapiers also work with the weapons finesse feat.

Ditch the extra toughness feats. One is fine. You can use the feats freed up for better things.

Improved evasion instead of crippling strike at level 10. You'll find that you will kill faster than crippling strike takes to mean anything and more evasion early is never a bad thing. -2 str on the mobs isn't that great when you're doing sneak damage plus whatever your weapons have. My capped out Rogue took strike but swapped for skill mastery after finding that strike wasn't doing enough for me because I was killing everything that moved so fast.

Improved Crit Piercing is a must. Crits plus sneak attack equals dead mobs.

Precision is a great feat for a rogue. Bypasses 25% of enemy fortification. Add oppurtunist to that for more dead mobs.

Power attack is situationally useful but not a must feat. You can't use it when precision is active and vice versa.

Don't ignore ranged weapons. My rogue uses a repeating crossbow when its appropriate.

On your ability raises every 4th level, are you a dex build or an int build? Strongly consider putting dex intially at 15 to qualify for TWF, lower int to 14 and raise con to 16. Raise dex as you level and keep an eye out for tomes to raise int. My assassin rogue started with 14 int and with an int item, tomes, enhancements and buffs assassinates effectively all the way to epic hard content.

[NeedHelp]

Nice, thanks for the advice. My build is Dex based. I made the changes you suggested and I like the result. My question is; I've been raising Dex with Rogue and Elf Dex and ability points at every 4th level like you said, but when I reached Dex 21 I used the ability points to up Intel. Your advice is not to bother using ability points for Intel and use them to raise only Dex?

You were right on the excessive use of Toughness Feat. Having the extra two only added four points to my Hit-Points. I added Improved Crit (Piercing), which I wanted to do and also Precision which had been suggested. I up Improved Evasion and removed Crip Strike for Skill Mastery. I'm really liking the results, just want to be clear on the Dex question so I can post the build.

[rayworks]

If you start with 15 base dex to qualify for TWF, you will need to add 2 more dex to get ITWF and GTWF. You can do this with a tome or with level raises (or a combination of the two).

After you get 17 dex, 21 is the next important dex to get, but it won't become necessary until you get to 21st level when you have access to the improved sneak attack feat.

Base dex (meaning dex on character creation plus tomes plus level ups) above 21 currently has no impact on feat selections. (dex from items, buffs or enhancements has no impact on feat selections) For that reason I stopped at base 21 (15 + tome + level up). So yes, raising INT at that point is a good idea.

[NeedHelp]

Okay! Here is the build with your suggestions and you can see the modified stats by level 20 without using tomes, which I plan to use as I can afford and find them. I realized that at level 8 I should do ability raise Con since at level 9 I raise Dex again and at lvl 12, 16, and 20 raise Int. I would still have 21 Dex, 18 Con and Int, which I can easily use a +3 tome to bring Con and Int to 21.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page


Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 18
Will: 5


                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             12                 12                   12
Dexterity            15                 17                   22
Constitution         16                 17                   18
Intelligence         14                 16                   18
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma              8                  8                    8


                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    29
Bluff                 0                    15
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                1                     7
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  6                    38
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  2                     9
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         6                    37
Open Lock             6                    29
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                6                    29
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I




Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I




Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness I




Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I




Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II




Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II




Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II




Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III




Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I




Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness II




Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II




Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV




Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV




Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery




Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III




Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III




Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction I




Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Improved Hide III

[SisAmethyst]

Dunno, does those 10 or 20 HP from the Barb dilettante really cut it? I mean you have evasion, later even greater evasion. On the other hand the Arti dilettante also increase UMD and the possibility to use some magic wands naturally to buff up. Granted I currently run Mellkors Master Assassin as a TR, but I really like the possibility to use for example a repeater.

Also you can probably account at least for one +2 tome, as nearly everybody should be able to get the one favour tome for the character from Nyx in the harbour. Maybe not at level 7, but definitely.

Regarding weapons, there are also some pretty nice and even easy to obtain dagger and short swords in the game. Take a look at DDO wiki e.g. Envenomed Blade. Except of that indeed random loot rapiers, and check if you get the chance get hand on a radiance rapier to blind mobs. Also always keep some club at hand to beat on skellies, as it is a pain to try to kill them with a piercing weapon

[TheMash]

Okay! Here is the build with your suggestions and you can see the modified stats by level 20 without using tomes, which I plan to use as I can afford and find them. I realized that at level 8 I should do ability raise Con since at level 9 I raise Dex again and at lvl 12, 16, and 20 raise Int. I would still have 21 Dex, 18 Con and Int, which I can easily use a +3 tome to bring Con and Int to 21.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page


Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Female
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 18
Will: 5


                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             12                 12                   12
Dexterity            15                 17                   22
Constitution         16                 17                   18
Intelligence         14                 16                   18
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma              8                  8                    8


                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    29
Bluff                 0                    15
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                1                     7
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  6                    38
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  2                     9
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         6                    37
Open Lock             6                    29
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    22
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                6                    29
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I




Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I




Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness I




Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I




Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II




Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II




Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II




Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III




Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I




Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness II




Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II




Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV




Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV




Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery




Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III




Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III




Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction I




Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Improved Hide III

Hey mate, the reason you would want 21 BASE dex (this is NOT counting enhancements or items, only your starting dex, level up points in dex and tomes) is because of this feat: http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Sneak_Attack
However, your build shows a 17 base dex wich is sufficient for the TWF fighting line, but unless you're planning on getting a +4 tome, you don't qaulify for improved sneak attack, wich is silly on a finesse build.
My advice is put the stat points at 16 and 20 into dex instead that way you will qualify for improved sneak attack with a +2 dex tome.

To clear up the confusion, the Feat/enhancement modified stat on the planer is not the base stats for the purpose of feat selection.

[JDollar]

I you are going "dex build then absolutely go Dex for level ups use int as a secondary and Con as tertiary.

feats: toughness, weapon finesse, twf, impr twf, impr crit, gtwf, precison
rogue feats: Impr evasion, opportunist, Skill mastery, your choice ( i usually take skill mastery)
Arti Dilly
str 10
dex 16 +5 level ups dex or base 21 w/o tomes
con 14
int 16
wis 8
cha 8

Get your HP through gear toughness item, (greater) false life, Shroud HP item (personally I like to go smoke2 or displacement clicky).

As a rogue above all you should not be getting hit. A heavy fort item by heroic giant hold should be fine. Never be the irst one in a ight and you will only need to worry about absorbing cleaves meant for others. Always try and position yoursel behind or beside targets. The barb dilly might seem nice or the hp at low levels but the versitility of Arti will make your rogue shine. Blur shield and displacement wands/scrolls are your friends as are Greater herosim and Tensors at higher levels.

[NeedHelp]

To clear up the confusion, the Feat/enhancement modified stat on the planer is not the base stats for the purpose of feat selection.

I wasn't understanding what everyone has been trying to tell me about Dex-based until I read your comment.

The barb dilly might seem nice or the hp at low levels but the versitility of Arti will make your rogue shine. Blur shield and displacement wands/scrolls are your friends as are Greater herosim and Tensors at higher levels.

I understand what you are telling me but will I be able to use Arti Dilly even if I don't have the class open on the account? I'm going to try your suggestions.

Thank you both for your feedback.

[TheMash]

I wasn't understanding what everyone has been trying to tell me about Dex-based until I read your comment.



I understand what you are telling me but will I be able to use Arti Dilly even if I don't have the class open on the account? I'm going to try your suggestions.

Thank you both for your feedback.

You don't need to have arti unlocked to get the arti dilly, so don't worry about that.
Same goes for the other p2p classes, favored soul and druid.