Is this feasible? F2p 28pt solo-friendly dragonmarked halfling mostly-rogue?

[mna]

Hi all,

I was trying to start a related discussion in the newbie-help section of the forums already but I'm not sure if my question was 1) dismissed outright as ridiculous or 2) too esoteric to bother, or maybe something else...


The thing is, does it make any sense to try making a decently soloable (self-sufficient) newbie-friendly fully dragonmarked halfling mostly-rogue? (28pt, no monk, not many packs to farm gear from, ...)

I figured that such a build would probably require at least that 1 level of wizard for the metamagics and somewhere between 4 and 8 levels of fighter for feats... obivously in the latter case not being eligible for tier 2 prestige enhancements in the _current_ system.

But what do I know, I'm still a newbie, my highest-level toon is at level 10...


Oh, and when people are discussing feats for dragonmarked halflings, does "empower" usually mean "empower healing" so it'd help with the greater DM too, or am I just confused?


Still, I was thinking about going this route with a preexisting level 6 mechanic, as an exercise in "salvaging" a character - I figured I could get it to have, by level 20, 15/4/1 rog/ftr/wiz, and all three DMs, maximize, empower (healing?), toughness, finesse, TWF, ITWF, dodge, power attack, slippery mind, and opportunist... not in that order, but, is that even a reasonable set of feats?

But then, it's not recommended to do multiclassing without planning for it from the start, so, even if it's not workable for that toon, is this at all doable from a fresh start as a 28-point f2p newbie? (That particular level 6 toon does have an unused birthday box... and has already eaten a +1 int tome, too.)


Then, enhancements, either mechanic or assassin... mechanic feels like more of a well-rounded setup for all-f2p solo play at mid levels, what with the better trap skills (given the same gear), doggy, and ranged option...? But then, assassin would be just an enhancement reset away, much easier than a feat swap.


Would taking it back to, say, 11 rog/8 ftr/1 wiz make more sense as far as feats go? (I'd expect to probably take long enough for it to hit, say, level 15, that the new enhancement system should be up by then... even if continuing from the existing level 6 toon.)

[Paxsmickey]

I haven't played a halfling with dragonmarks, so i don't know how effective it would be, but if I were to try it out I would probably go with a level split of: 13 rogue/6 fighter/1 wizard.


Rogue bonus feats are rather nice, and rogues add 1d6 sneak attack damage every odd level. For this reason I'd recommend taking 10, 13, 16, or 19 levels of rogue.

You want metamagics to boost your dragonmarks, so at least 1 level in a class with sp is needed. Wizard is a great choice for the free wizard feat.

fighter levels are great for adding more feats. it is best to keep fighter splashes (in my opinion) at: 1, 2, 4, 6, or 8.

the first 2 levels give you a free feat, every even level gives one more feat. 6 levels opens the chance for a fighter prestige class.


with a 13/6/1 split you gain 2 rogue feats, 1 wizard feat, 4 fighter feats, and 7 general feats.

I recommend taking these:
Dragonmark of healing x3, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness, Precision (helps with bypassing fortification), Weapon finesse (if Dex based), Improved Critical (Pierce or Slash) Maximize, Quicken, Empower Healing (if not taking weapon finesse).

Rogue Feats: Slippery Mind, Opportunist (halfling saves can be crazy high)

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT: 14
WIS: 8
CHA: 8

Maybe move a few points from STR to boost Wis a little, you could go with 12 int, but I love skill points. With a 32 point build I'd increase WIS a little. You can either put level stats in STR and avoid the need for weapon finesse, or boost DEX and use the feat (but be sure to use a +6 str item or better).

Rapiers or Kukri are probably the way to go.

Another thing to consider: at higher levels you can use heal scrolls with enough UMD, and a Hireling can heal you too. If you want to use dragonmarks you certainly could, but scrolls are effective too.

Hope that Helps,
-PaxsMickey

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

I did a similar build, didn't go wizard 1 lvl but took 6lvls of ranger. You get more of a meele build that way with ranged burst dmg. Like wizard, ranger gives you acess to metamagics but also access to positive spell power enhancements that will boost your heals even more. 6 lvls of ranger grants a huge bunch of nice free feats - among the others almost everything you will need for great ranged dmg. You get manyshot that enables you to fire 4 arraws at once and each arrow will get separate sneak attack bonus, so quite a nice burst dps there. You get two weapon fighting and improved two weapon fighting for free. Also, you can choose two favored enemy classes that helps deal with rogues weaknesses like constructs, undead etc. With 6 ranger lvls you can also take a prestige enhancement deepwood sniper that gives you a ranged bluff ability (forces sneak attack) and increases your ranged sneak attack range. Rams might spell is also one of the best self buffs in the game.

There is a great synergy between the two classes, however to get a full effect you need to go a bit deeper into ranger territory. Even with all the extras you will end up short on feats and will need at least 2 lvls of figter to fit it all as curently (but not for long) you need all three dragonmarks.

[Shaatan]

There is nothing solo friendly in 28pt dragonmarked halfling rogue. :P

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

There is nothing solo friendly in 28pt dragonmarked halfling rogue. :P

He's right. Rogues can be great for solo but require some TR gear. You might make due with a melee hire cycling bluff and diplo and a pair od deceptions but you will find it challanging. Self healing is great but what you really need is eliminating the threat real fast.

[Fleckislaupir]

Oh, and when people are discussing feats for dragonmarked halflings, does "empower" usually mean "empower healing" so it'd help with the greater DM too, or am I just confused?

They're separate feats: Empower and Maximize will boost the Least & Lesser halfling DMs; Emp Heal boosts all three.

The problem with the halfling DMs is you have to invest a lot of feats (and preferably some Devotion enhs) to max out their healing output; otherwise they just don't provide enough oomph to be worthwhile. That implies only taking them with classes which have extra feats to spare (e.g., ftr, rgr, wiz, maybe arty) and don't already have plenty of self-healing. And even then, you're still talking about a flavor build which has a few emergency heals, not a truly self-sufficient toon, IMHO.

Honestly, your main problem is that rogues have lousy self-sufficiency until their UMD gets high enough; that plus their reliance on sneak atk dmg makes them a poor choice for a first-time F2P soloer. I applaud you for thinking outside the box with the DMs, but I don't think they help enough.

If you're still interested in DMed halfling builds, have a look at my Jorasco Medics and Thanimal's Quad-H.

[mna]

OK, I get it, not a useful thing to do because using 5 to 6 feat slots cuts too much from damage and other primary abilities, right.

And mostly-rogue soloing is an "advanced" thing for experienced and geared players, right?

Honestly, your main problem is that rogues have lousy self-sufficiency until their UMD gets high enough; that plus their reliance on sneak atk dmg makes them a poor choice for a first-time F2P soloer. I applaud you for thinking outside the box with the DMs, but I don't think they help enough.

Well, to be honest, I'm not _quite_ a first-time soloer with this toon as I usually have pushed one of my higher-level toons through the same quests before... not much of a difference though.

If you're still interested in DMed halfling builds, have a look at my Jorasco Medics and Thanimal's Quad-H.

Oh well, the Quad-H build starts with 32pt and monk, will be a while before I get to try that. But the medics might be interesting...

I already have three toons going on different servers using your "tempest trapmonkey" build, thanks for that one too.

[Fleckislaupir]

Since you're already familiar with my Tempest trapmonkey: I've experimented with DMed rgr builds as well. To be honest, I've never come up with one I was entirely satisfied with, but here's one example:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 25 True Neutral Halfling Female
(2 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 15 Ranger \ 5 Epic) 
Hit Points: 385
Spell Points: 185 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
Strength             14                    23
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness (swap for Dodge later)


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 21 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision (or Power Attack)


Level 22 (Rogue)


Level 23 (Rogue)


Level 24 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 25 (Rogue)

Basically the idea is that, in addition to the self-healing rgrs normally get (i.e., CSW & Rejuvenation Cocoon), she also has the halfling DMs. The ftr splash is for the extra feats, ofc, as well as +1 STR enh and Toughness I; rog 3 gets her W&S Mastery I and 2d6+3 sneak atk which stacks w/Guile IV for 2d6+15 (avg. 22 per hit). Drawbacks: I backloaded the Tempest feats in order to take the halfling DMs; she doesn't have Emp or Max, so her Least & Lesser DMs are a lot less useful.

[CrackedIce]

I can tell you that though I have not done a rogue dragaonmarked halfling, I have done a first life 28pt one that was a ( strength based )12 fighter (kenseiII), 7 pali (defender 1, saves, devotion III, Divine sacrifice), wizard (free meta, echoes of power for regenerating light heals, divine sacrifices, and divine power abilities)

leveling was straight forward:

12 fighter

2 pali

1 wizard

5 pali

It was a very easy build and was survivable at each heroic level. I have not played him into epics though.

Took all three metas: empower, Maximize, empower healing

Had 15 feats to play around with so able to take all the necessary feats.



As a rogue you would lose out on feats, but maybe you can try a deep splash using 7 rogue and some ranger to maximize your skills if you are set on traps.

Like 6 - 8 ranger (7 for devotion III, 8 for empower heal) 5-7rogue, and rest fighter.

Or just splash cleric to access all the metas, go rogue 13, go acrobat for PA C GC w/o doing twf line, 6 fighter or do twf with 6 ranger.

Play around with the build planner and see what you like.