Monk Question

[AlmGhandi]

Oh man! The Monk posts are all still "disappeared"!

I'm planning on a Monk life, that must be a halfling (see signature)... probably "light" and probably "wind". (legend, +4 tomes everywhere)
Am I going to go mad? I want to get my Monk past life before the enhancements Change... just in case Monks end up as borked as handwraps.

I have played a lot with the character planner... and somehow it seems that a Monk with a deep splash of something else (ranger... fighter.... Pally) is more powerful... after all my Goal is simply to hit 20 and then TR!!!
Is that really how it is? Ranger gives some nice feats and at least one pre-req for Shintao... (and Monkcher..........)
Fighter gives lots of feats.... Pally gives LoH.

Or I could do an Arti1/RNG9/Dark Monk 10 Thing...
On the one Hand experiencing pure Monk is something I want to do.... on the other Hand... I could roll a first life toon and "experience" it quicker...
I know there used to be a lot of Monk Posts... but now the Forum is empty... anyone with experience got anything helpful for an indecisive Hobbit?

[AlmGhandi]

of course... if i went EARTH then my vampiric stonedust handwraps would work better....

[TeacherSyn]

My opinion: Learn what a pure Monk can do up to 20.

They are the most self-sufficient melee class from healing to damage. They are complex to work with, which is why learning how the class abilities work is better than learning and managing two or more crossed-classes.

The character planner is a great tool, but perhaps you should read up on what you can do without first creating a character like you're tossing up a salad.

Try my Monk guide (link in the signature) to get some ideas and a taste of what pure Monks can do without rolling one up to help make your decision. Most folks just add Monk levels (2 to be precise) for Evasion, or do the same with Rogues. A pure Monk has such substantial power that a Light Monk can solo (and I mean solo, no hirelings) Devil's Assault on Epic Hard (that's a small room and a LOT of spawns attacking you with no other option but to kill or be killed). I'm sure a few more experienced players might have tried this on Epic Elite.

Dark Monks can deal more damage but have fewer DR bypassing options, unarmed, while Light Monks that take the full Shintao route become unarmed living metalline.

[sebastianosmith]

My opinion: Learn what a pure Monk can do up to 20.

...

Dark Monks can deal more damage but have fewer DR bypassing options, unarmed, while Light Monks that take the full Shintao route become unarmed living metalline.

I have to agree with Spencerian. If this is your first monk, going pure and Light/Shintao is the way to play. The frustration of finding suitable wraps alone make it worth the minimal sacrifice in DPS. As a halfling, might I even suggest focusing on Wis/Dex? I realize DPS may suffer somewhat when engaging non-stunned mobs, but your survivability will be immense. By the time you acquire Shintao III, there won't be much outside of bosses that can withstand your Kukan-Do or Stunning Fist attacks. Plus, you'll always be welcome in a PUG if you master the light finishers.

Best of luck!

[Soulfurnace]

A pure Monk has such substantial power that a Light Monk can solo (and I mean solo, no hirelings) Devil's Assault on Epic Hard (that's a small room and a LOT of spawns attacking you with no other option but to kill or be killed). I'm sure a few more experienced players might have tried this on Epic Elite.

Just from my monk life, I did the same as a dark monk, ehard was "easy", but ee.. I got halfway. Not too bad for a 28 pt imo.
I prefer dark to light, though light (mainly tomb and dismissing strike) is fun, 25% incorp is just... better for me.
Either way, I agree with Spencerian. If you've got a monk question, the first place to look is the Book of Syn.

[Meetch1972]

My opinion: Learn what a pure Monk can do up to 20.

Yup, this^. My main's on life 6, and it's my first monk so he's going pure. While sorting out how best to use the light abilities I'll typically park a hireling near the entrance in case I run low on hit points and have wasted all my Ki (still hitting buttons I used to use for CC as a fighter). Self-sufficiency will probably come with eventual mastery of the light finishers. I love being able to self-blur and so forth, but so far it's usually all over far too fast for the buffs to be much use to me.

The book was also immensely helpful for choosing the path that suits me.

[AlmGhandi]

Thanks very much for the answers! I have read through the guide and come up with the following build. The purpose would be to get to 20 and then TR.

I was considering PA/CLEAVE instead of Precision/Finesse... but as a halfling hoping to live in WIND STANCE I got worried about being able to land blows with the strength being so low and the additional penalty from the power attack. If I like Monks then I would probably try other lives to get to see the other elements...

I have crafting Levels all about 70, and enough twink gear / silver flame pots etc to Keep me up, I hope!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

MONK 
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 330
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 22
Will: 23

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    18
Dexterity            16                    22
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence          8                    12
Wisdom               16                    29
Charisma              8                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    29
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         7                    38
Diplomacy            -1                     1
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     5
Heal                  3                     9
Hide                  4                    23
Intimidate           -1                     3
Jump                  3                    18
Listen                3                    11
Move Silently         4                    23
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     2
Search               -1                     2
Spot                  3                     9
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                4                     7
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth


Level 5 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 7 (Monk)
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 10 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey III


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Enhancement: Shintao Monk II


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Master of Thunder


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) III


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom III


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey IV


Level 17 (Monk)
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
Enhancement: Void Strike II


Level 19 (Monk)
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I

[AlmGhandi]

I have crafting Levels all about 70, and enough twink gear / silver flame pots etc to Keep me up, I hope!

Although having recently witnessed how much Monks have changed since MOTU... I am starting to have second thoughts.... I could make a MonkCher with a higher BAB!

[Munkenmo]

I know there used to be a lot of Monk Posts... but now the Forum is empty... anyone with experience got anything helpful for an indecisive Hobbit?

NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU IGNORE IN MY POST, DO NOT TAKE WEAPON FINESSE.

The posts about light monks and DR breaking is great and all, but for TR'ing, shintao 1 is terrible. Whilst shintao 2 can be quite good, on a properly optimized monk past life build, you won't reach 12 monk levels.

Shintao 1 = byeshk, heroic level monsters with byesh DR : Daelkyr, Mind Flayers, Xorian Flensers, Xorian Reavers, Xorian Renders. 1 boss, 4 types of monster, mostly easy ones to deal with.
Shintao 2 = cold iron, Bralani, Fire Reaver, Flesh Render, Ghaele, Ice Flenser, Jarilith, Lantern Archon, Marilith, Night Hag, Succubus. 10 types of monster. annoying ones too, so yes this rank is useful.
Shintao 3 = doesn't matter, you shouldn't hit 18th monk level before you're ready to TR

Pure monks whilst powerful at cap, and relatively easy to level, don't have very good AOE damage, sure they don't take a lot of damage, but they can only dish it out to one mob at a time, so they're slow easy levelers.

The key to easy TR's is to maximize your AOE damage, to this end, your proposed build has little synergy, you'll not get many ranks in arcane archer and tempest doesn't work unarmed. You could aim for tempest / ninja spy with shortswords, but you're really starting to backload your build, completely counterproductive to the goals of a past life build.

If you start looking into splashing for benefits and paying attention to what you give up, you'll notice it takes 12 levels to get a useful prestige for light monks, it only takes 6 for dark monks. (though I will admit, fists of light at your third monk level is awesome if you have good heal amp)

Now if you're really considering a deep splash, go for atleast 7-9 druid levels, and unlock reaving roar, my favorite monk past life build atm : 1ranger > 1monk > 9 druid > 8 monk.

Starting Stats : 16/12/14/10/16/8 - Level ups into strength

Level 1 (Ranger) 
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead 
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack 
 
Level 2 (Monk) 
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness 
 
Level 3 (Druid) 
Feat: (Selected) Cleave 
 
Level 4 (Druid) 
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf 
 
Level 5 (Druid) 
 
Level 6 (Druid) 
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave 
 
Level 7 (Druid) 
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear 
 
Level 8 (Druid) 
 
Level 9 (Druid) 
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell or Quicken spell.
 
Level 10 (Monk) 
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist 
 
Level 11 (Druid) 
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf 
 
Level 12 (Druid) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons 
 
Level 13 (Monk) 
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness 
 
Level 14 (Monk) 
 
Level 15 (Monk) 
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting 
 
Level 16 (Monk) 
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge 
 
Level 17 (Monk) 
 
Level 18 (Monk) 
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting 
 
Level 19 (Monk) 
 
Level 20 (Monk)

Note that build is stronger as a human feat wise, but i'm sure halfling guile would make it up. You could also swap the order of toughness and stunning fist around (personally I do, but it's less newb friendly). Make sure you pick up the Reaving Roar enhancement at druid level 7.

[Soulfurnace]

I could make a MonkCher with a higher BAB!

Speaking from a monkcher(ish) life, a pure monk has a higher BAB. Iirc, they end up with 20/20 BAB while unarmed
In regards to going Wind Stance, eh.. I found earth to be more fun, albeit that speed penalty hurts.

[AlmGhandi]

Thanks for the responses! I am learning a lot!

So what is the Problem with weapon Finesse? I can then build a super high dex and hit.... and with the items, tomes etc I still come out with a strength of 22-24....

Using Ron's character planner... the Monkcher has a higher BAB than the Monk... or does the character planner not take everything here into account?

[sebastianosmith]

Thanks for the responses! I am learning a lot!

So what is the Problem with weapon Finesse? I can then build a super high dex and hit.... and with the items, tomes etc I still come out with a strength of 22-24....

It's mostly due to the to-hit calculation changes made in U14. Everything, players and mob alike, got a substantial boost to hit even given surprisingly disparate AC vs attack bonuses. Adding weapon finesse to a high-dex character became rather more superfluous than it had once been if even moderate strength is taken into account.

Using Ron's character planner... the Monkcher has a higher BAB than the Monk... or does the character planner not take everything here into account?

Monkchers have a higher BAB because rangers get a +1 BAB per level and monks get a 0.75 BAB. The two BAB scores are additive in a multiclass. Not that this makes much of a difference as centered monks also get the Flurry of Blows feat which boosts BAB +1 every four levels which brings them in line with the other melee-oriented classes by level 20.

[Munkenmo]

Thanks for the responses! I am learning a lot!

So what is the Problem with weapon Finesse? I can then build a super high dex and hit.... and with the items, tomes etc I still come out with a strength of 22-24....

The formula for to hit changed with the last expansion pack, to hit is no longer a simple calculation of your too hit vs their ac.

It's now more complex, and is worked into a % chance to hit, this % is rounded to the nearest 5%, and it is common to see situations where boosting your too hit by 4, making no difference at all to you % chance to hit the enemy.

The changes have rendered feats like weapon focus, and weapon finesse useless newbie traps.

[Izdaari]

Yep, learn what a monk can do to 20, then consider multiclass variants.

Now that I've played a monk to 24 (and have the xp for 25 banked, but holding off because my static group levels together), I'm about ready to TR for the first time, and I'm thinking about a monk hybrid of some kind. But I wouldn't really know what to do with that if I hadn't played a monk to the top first.

Btw, this life I've been a halfling dex/wis dark monk, and been very happy with it. (Thanks to Rockan aka Anthios888 for the Rockan Robin build mine is based on.) And these days I'm no longer favoring wind stance, but ocean stance now to maximize my DC on stuns and other special attacks, switching to earth for off-tanking.