Iconics cannot reincarnate

[cforce]

Yeah, you're going to want to back that statement up with something. Every player I know TRs all of their characters.

Single data point, but still: I've been playing the game pretty solidly since 2006, have a handful of characters either capped or parked somewhere between 20 and 25, and have TR'ed exactly 1 character. And I regret that one, who's been parked at level 12-13 for about two years because it felt too grindy. I don't TR, I roll up a new character, and keep the old one.

Additionally, the people I play with the most are a dedicated group. Of that party of 6, no-one has ever TR'er a character.

There are a *lot* of players of the game who are on a more casual schedule, have alt-itis, don't play in top-end guild, or might have never even looked at the forums. I suspect this is targeted more at this set of players.

[Shinjiteru]

I have 10 characters and no time to TR them all. At the moment I mainly play 4 of them because of a lack of time and one of these 4 is first life lvl 25 and there is no plan to TR him since my other main characters would benefit much more from a TR and I don't belong to the players who TR in 3-4 days. And since my TRs take some time I also like to have a 'backup toon' at endgame level while TRing.
So if some of the iconic heroes will have some nice additional perks and start near cap they would be perfect for that purpuse.

For example a cleric/fvs whos main purpuse is to heal a group. There is no need to TR unless you want some more stat points for character creation or maybe 30HP for the barb PLs, but really... if you only want to have a heal bot to help the guild/friends with raids/quests when needed you don't need any single TR with a cleric/FvS.
Same for a pure dps barb at cap. As long as you didn't start with 28 points build you don't need to TR. Yeah monk PLs give +1dmg and such stuff, but with a good build and good items you don't need the PLs to be a good dps for the group.
Ok someone with several TRs will be better but it's not needed to be able to complete raids/quests at endgame.

But yeah, most casters will probably TR several times to get additional DC or spell pen so an iconic caster needs strong additional perks to make up for that.
And there are also some classes and builds which get really much stronger by getting several PLs so for these the iconic heroes will probably be never an alternative.
And some classes just need to invest into too many stats that starting without 36 stat points is not a good idea, but maybe some additional perks of iconic heroes are able to make up for this loss of stat points.

Sometimes you also just want to know if a class which seems to be interesting is really fun to play for you. And it helps alot if you can start at lvl 15 where you already got nearly all of the spells or feats this class gets to play test it without the need to zerg/farm through the first 15 character levels. And if you like the toon you can decide if TRs benefit this character enough to go through one or several TRs or if the characters is already strong enough and you better spend your time TRing other characters.

But yeah... it should be possible to TR into a normal class without getting a PL feat or anything if the player wants to. Because if you like your iconic heroe but after some time think getting PLs would be much stronger than beeing an iconic heroe it should be possible to do so without loosing all the items you already aquired.

LRs should be possible anyways and there should be no need to explain this need to anyone. A character class which is not able to LR is no option for anyone who really wants to play ddo for more than one year. Beeing able to fix mistakes in the build or to adapt the build to game play changes is something very important, especially when releasing a class/race right before an update to skills and enhancements which will force many players to LR.

[Nibor]

We'll have some news on this...soon. We're working on a dev diary that will help clarify some things about Iconics.

Did this ever happen?

[waryJerry]

I don't get all the confusion/outrage about the new iconics. The devs have been clear for some time that they are ineligible for true resurrection. Did you geniuses really expect that after giving you 15 levels for free that you'd also be able to TR? I'm less clear about whether they're intended to be ineligible for lesser and greater reincarnation. For a lot of players the lack of reincarnation options renders the iconics useless, but I'm warming up to them. Do I really want to take the time and expense to TR every character I have a slot for? No, I'd rather have some characters that could start out at a relatively high level, serve the interests of my main character, and would even be disposable if I had the whim to reroll them. Have you ever wondered how much time and real-life dollars you put into TRing a roster of characters? TR is best left to your favorite characters.

[Forzah]

Not being able to TR is perfectly fine, imo. However, not allowing LR/GR to fix mistakes is no good.

[BinyaminTsadik]

Not being able to TR is perfectly fine, imo. However, not allowing LR/GR to fix mistakes is no good.

It has already been stated that Iconics will be able to LR and TR in the future. Also stated that the TR system will undergo some changes.

I'm assuming that since all of the new content is level 15+ and the new team has been working on the forgotten realms, that they will retire ebberron level 1-14 and keep it around for Nostalgic purposes.
This will allow the new TR range to be from level 15-28 or 15-30 and put a greater emphasis on all of the new content that is being released.

I'm sure that the old TR system will still be present for people that prefer that route, however, if you would rather the new system (leveling up your destinies while TRing) then this can also be a method.

I also have no problem with an Iconic deciding to TR from level 20 to lvl 1 if they chose to. But I assume most people will move to TR from level 28 to level 15.

A huge benefit of doing this is making the old level 20 epic gear worth farming again.

[Candela90]

I don't get all the confusion/outrage about the new iconics. The devs have been clear for some time that they are ineligible for true resurrection. Did you geniuses really expect that after giving you 15 levels for free that you'd also be able to TR?.

I dont agree.
If theyre not TRable theyre pretty much - useless.
Its ok if after TR theyre lvl 1. I dont care. And if every next TR place them at 1 instead of 15. But they should be TRable, and other toons should be able to TR in them. Thats all.

Not many players after playing all these years want to throw their characterts away and start playing new ones. I grow to love my 2 characters, and I dont want to play more of them. But I like TRing them from time to time in sth new.
BTW I never spend a dollar on my TR... Some ppl just enjoy TRing after sitting at endgame for half year.

[Silverleafeon]

TRing is also the last ditch choice to fix a bugged character.

[Gowenna_Stardust]

Well, from my own experience:

I started on Khyber as a 2 Rogue / x Wizard like 12 months ago. One of my best level buddies was a newbie himself(I now know that), but for me he was a very knowledgeable person. He used a stone of experience to level up to 16 and asked me to do the same, as we wanted to play on together. So I took the stone, leveled up to 16 and from that day kept dying in every single quest i tried. I could hardly survive level 10's on normal due to inexperience and crappy gear (i was still using eternal wands of finger of fire and stuff because i didnt know how to set my enhancements right or any SP management)! And i had even been playing DnD pen and paper for like 10 years! So my point is: Being able to make a level jump is tempting, yes. But it doesn't really help to bring a newbie some longtime motivation... Its more like frustrating them to never come back!
In my case the story went on by making a new character and grinding her to level 23, before having my messed up main carried to level 20 by friendly people and TRing her (which wouldn't have been possible on a Bladeforged!!). She now runs most heroic quests solo elite!

So on the first glance the Iconics help new players getting started, but all too soon reality will catch them. If you do not have the experience AND equipment for it, you will most likely be put in a permanent body bag on high level quests. And not many people want to carry a static -10% exp in their parties...

[-Zephyr-]

Well, from my own experience:

I started on Khyber as a 2 Rogue / x Wizard like 12 months ago. One of my best level buddies was a newbie himself(I now know that), but for me he was a very knowledgeable person. He used a stone of experience to level up to 16 and asked me to do the same, as we wanted to play on together. So I took the stone, leveled up to 16 and from that day kept dying in every single quest i tried. I could hardly survive level 10's on normal due to inexperience and crappy gear (i was still using eternal wands of finger of fire and stuff because i didnt know how to set my enhancements right or any SP management)! And i had even been playing DnD pen and paper for like 10 years! So my point is: Being able to make a level jump is tempting, yes. But it doesn't really help to bring a newbie some longtime motivation... Its more like frustrating them to never come back!
In my case the story went on by making a new character and grinding her to level 23, before having my messed up main carried to level 20 by friendly people and TRing her (which wouldn't have been possible on a Bladeforged!!). She now runs most heroic quests solo elite!

So on the first glance the Iconics help new players getting started, but all too soon reality will catch them. If you do not have the experience AND equipment for it, you will most likely be put in a permanent body bag on high level quests. And not many people want to carry a static -10% exp in their parties...

To be fair, Iconics provide both decent gear for their level, and not-too-terrible builds.
Stones of experience provided neither of that.

The big problem with them however, is that they don't automatically put useful abilities on the hotbars.
I remember when I started playing, it took me a very, very long time before thinking "hey, let's try to take skills/feats and put them on the hotbar !". Same with enhancements (even if those came before the feats/skills), at first hotbars only seemed useful for gear.

Bladeforged start with more stuff missing from the hotbars because only the lvl 1 stuff is put there, and then they jump straight to 15.