Well, now I've gone and done it!: Need Build Advice.

[Kilbar]

I got into a disagreement over the utility of pure rangers with a friend yesterday and opened my yap one too many times. Now I'm committed to one day taking a pure ranger into Caught in the Web on Epic Elite and usefully contributing.

Thing is, I know general consensus around here is that pure rangers are gimp. So what I need is advice on how to make a pure ranger who isn't gimp anyway. I have all races unlocked, a Monk toon at 25th level and nearly ready to TR for his first time, and a great willingness to listen to advice.

[~Gaesatae]

I think you're toughest challenge will be finding a group that wants to run EE CitW.

[Kilbar]

Noted. Any other advice?

[ForumAccess]

I got into a disagreement over the utility of pure rangers with a friend yesterday and opened my yap one too many times. Now I'm committed to one day taking a pure ranger into Caught in the Web on Epic Elite and usefully contributing.

If the only qualification is to 'usefully contribute', as opposed to having a relative advantage at something, anyone with 11+ levels of ranger and stats that aren't terrible can meet this. Just push your Strength, max out Fury of the Wild and remember to use Furyshot wisely. Tempest would probably be better than AA, but that all depends on your personal skill set and gear available.

[Soulfurnace]

Rangers are NOT gimp. Players are.
As he said, FoTW with either tempest or AA (I prefer AA), play smartly, you'll be fine, and useful. (mostly)
May not be useful, but it's not an impossible job.. But if he's making you TR, make him go 20 pally

[Kilbar]

Rangers are NOT gimp. Players are.
As he said, FoTW with either tempest or AA (I prefer AA), play smartly, you'll be fine, and useful. (mostly)
May not be useful, but it's not an impossible job.. But if he's making you TR, make him go 20 pally

He isn't making me do it, I'm doing it to prove a (potentially incorrect) point.

So for a pure ranger, I should go for a Half Elf for best results? I like humans for the extra feat and skill points, but I have to conceed the eldritch horror-faced Helfs have their advantages. Such as not having to rely on UMD to wand whip and scroll read.

[barecm]

Pure ranger running FoTW is nice for the boss fight. If you are in a group that is stepping out and back into the quest, then you can begin running Shiradi for crowd control (pin, toxin and dance are beasts) and then switch out to FoTW towards the end. Or run hybrid with Leg Dreadnaught with some cc and twist in sense weakness. Just balance your str and dex in your build and you will be more than fine. Pure rangers being gimp is pre exapansion thinking....

[Sabirah]

Pure ranger running FoTW is nice for the boss fight. If you are in a group that is stepping out and back into the quest, then you can begin running Shiradi for crowd control (pin, toxin and dance are beasts) and then switch out to FoTW towards the end. Or run hybrid with Leg Dreadnaught with some cc and twist in sense weakness. Just balance your str and dex in your build and you will be more than fine. Pure rangers being gimp is pre exapansion thinking....

He's right, pure ranger is not gimp. Rangers are nerfed pretty bad since update 5, i'd say, but still very decent. FoTW and twisting Sense Weakness in other ED's are not a bad idea. Also, think of races. Human is nice for versatility (+5 damage iirc) and bonus feat... but remember, pure rangers get MANY feats granted to them automatically. So what about Horc? Horc race by itself has a boost to strength and con, and enhancements as well that add even more str and con. So all you really need is a decent dex score and you're set, regardless if you choose AA or tempest. I'm thinking of doing this myself for a new toon I wanna fiddle around with. I've seen way too many monkchers and I personally want to try something different.

[Teh_Troll]

I have to say after TRing my Tempest into a pally-splash build (for healing-amp PL and as an experiment that I intend on taking to 25) rangers are SO not gimped by comparison. Never user the words "DPS" and "paladin" in the same sentence.

The shortcomings of the class are more than made up for by EDs. There's great synergy between FoTW and both Tempest and AA rangers. LD with ANYTHING as a foundation class can be ubber and rangers self-healing pays off. I prefer FoTW for a few reasons, mostly because a ranger won't get a stunning blow worth a **** in EE (and I run 95% EE at cap) and not being able to disable a target just plain sucks. Overwhelming Force covers that, and with 100% off-hand attack the Arenalines recharge pretty darned quickly.

I'm not sure if I'd go pure at this point, after the ENH pass happens there are some awesome capstones but that's months away. I'm still a find of the Human 18/1/1 ranger/rogue/monk or fighter for the utility and the extra feats. Tempest get about 15% more damage of AA in melee, AA's do a lot more damage with ranged. Tempest have some nice defensive aspects (15 PRR between Tempest III and TWD and the mandatory dodge feats) but having just leveled up the same toon as a pally with none of that I can't say how much i noticed. Maybe I might at 25.

Regardless of what your choices BUILD FOR SELF HEALING. I'm currently knocking out 3 pally PLs just for this purpose. 300-350 point CSW is possible and just plain awesome.

[AlteredState]

Never user the words "DPS" and "paladin" in the same sentence.

Paladin DPS is usally quite poor.

[Fleckislaupir]

What I consider a typical pure ranger build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 25 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Ranger \ 5 Epic) 
Hit Points: 377
Spell Points: 260 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 25)
Strength             18                    27
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf
Enhancement: Ranger Master of Archery
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III


Level 21 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 22 (Ranger)


Level 23 (Ranger)


Level 24 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 25 (Ranger)

[barecm]

For race selection for a pure ranged ranger, you will want to go elf for post enhancement pass..... assuming all stays the same.

[CrackedIce]

For race selection for a pure ranged ranger, you will want to go elf for post enhancement pass..... assuming all stays the same.

Agreed.

[chkm8ter]

Agreed.

One thing to note about elf is you'll want to make up the CON deficiency with tomes, gear, and perhaps a false life item. In addition, for a Tempest I'd recommend maxing STR, CON, DEX. Also weapon choice can play a big role in your effectiveness. Remember you are wielding 2 weapons which correlates to an increase in attack VOLUME and also varied weapon effects, and an increased double strike percentage. With a little weapon planning you'll be much more than viable...

[barecm]

One thing to note about elf is you'll want to make up the CON deficiency with tomes, gear, and perhaps a false life item. In addition, for a Tempest I'd recommend maxing STR, CON, DEX. Also weapon choice can play a big role in your effectiveness. Remember you are wielding 2 weapons which correlates to an increase in attack VOLUME and also varied weapon effects, and an increased double strike percentage. With a little weapon planning you'll be much more than viable...

I made up the con on my AA with my leveling up stat points (along with gear and tomes). I stand in FoTW at close to 900 hps pure elf pure ranger and a str and dex of 40 (36 point build). Be sure to have the 35 false life augment and a greensteel hp item somewhere in your gear layout.

[WraithfaceMacabre]

Ok, caveat time. I've never found a group to run CitW on EE. On EH, lots of experience. I talk about my L25 build in another post, but to sum up, before I TRed last night, L25 Elven first life AA Ranger. On my last CitW run I had 128 kills, next best was 98.

Now, that isn't to say I was the most bad ass monk slayer out there, it's just that different classes do different things. While I was clearing trash from under the healers' and arcanes' noses, the meatheads got to slug away at the biggest baddies. IMO, there's no strategy for a meathead, you run at the next biggest baddy on the list, rinse, repeat.

It's unfortunate that DDO is too often a p|ssing contest, but it's online gaming, and finesse and subtly take a back seat to animated phone booths swinging flattened Volkswagens at overgrown bedbugs.

"Killing" Sprie Willowseed

[MangLord]

I tried going into FotW for a while, but I still prefer Shiradi as an AA. With double rainbow and slayer arrows, I'm sure I hit for way more damage over time than a couple adrenaline bursts where you have to hope for a critical when you activate manyshot (which has the longest cooldown ever). I must be doing it wrong, because I can't see what the draw is when I get all kinds of special effects happening constantly with double rainbow.

One thing that annoys the hell out of me is the random damage actually healing the target on rare occasions. Like I really need to give a 27000hp boss a free 200hp heal.

[Inoukchuk]

I tried going into FotW for a while, but I still prefer Shiradi as an AA. With double rainbow and slayer arrows, I'm sure I hit for way more damage over time than a couple adrenaline bursts where you have to hope for a critical when you activate manyshot (which has the longest cooldown ever). I must be doing it wrong, because I can't see what the draw is when I get all kinds of special effects happening constantly with double rainbow.

One thing that annoys the hell out of me is the random damage actually healing the target on rare occasions. Like I really need to give a 27000hp boss a free 200hp heal.

Currently adrenaline effects all shots in a manyshot volley. So... in a single many shot volley you can squeeze off about 4 adrenaline uses (if you activate one before firing and nothing logs you). On my 12 rng /8 ftr that meant about 16 arrows doing about 20k aggregate, not counting the rest of the many shot arrows (another 100ish?) and I would recharge at least 2 adrenaline uses and charge my epic moment about half way. With epic moment running you get about 7 volleys (assuming you don't splash in extra adrenaline uses, which I do sometimes). There is a lot to like about shiradi, but I very much doubt it matches this kind of damage output with a bow. And because this is on-demand burst output, you can bring it to bear for the biggest moments and lay waste to a whole room full of guys and/or a boss. People like being able to decide when to pour it on. And if you melee to augment your damage (if you aren't a 10k stars build with a Pinion you are losing damage if you don't melee) then shiradi does nothing for you to speak of, but FotW is nasty in melee with overwhelming force.

[Wipey]

Now, that isn't to say I was the most bad ass monk slayer out there, it's just that different classes do different things. While I was clearing trash from under the healers' and arcanes' noses, the meatheads got to slug away at the biggest baddies. IMO, there's no strategy for a meathead, you run at the next biggest baddy on the list, rinse, repeat.

Did it ever occur to you, that ranged burst dps might be better spent on Bebilith Souls, Named Glabrezu/Spider, Lloth herself, leaving trash for blue bars with Aoe spells ( one energy burst, BB, or whatever ) or to be kited. Killing bosses/legs faster, less time, less sp, less deaths.
It's completely idiotic to see 2 people beating on Miniboss and the rest killing their own mob to pad their kill count, making the raid longer.
It's like in part 1 Shroud, you leave trash for blue bars and beat on the stupid portal as melee ( or "physical" dps rather ). To make it faster. You got few furies in Citw focusing their dps, and suddenly Citw takes 35 - 40 min instead 1 hour drag.
Just saying.

[Therigar]

Next week when the update hits you'll be able to get Tempest II and the full Arcane Archer PrE on the same character. This means the highest off-hand proc rate for TWF and pretty decent ranged damage even if you aren't a monkcher AA.

IMO the biggest decision will be racial choice. I'd be sorely tempted to go half-orc for as much STR as possible -- but I'm a bit on the crazy side so take that with a grain of salt.

And, don't forget the deepwoods tree either. Some useful things there as well.