DDO or Neverwinter

[~WhereMyOldNameGo]

DDO, I think, is a much better game. It's also unique.
Neverwinter is much more a "free WoW alternative"

I've been feeling like Turbine has been giving me the finger as a premium customer (former subscriber) for a long time now, though. I never intend to enter into another financial transaction with them again.

PWE, I percieve as having a rather mercenary stance from the very beginning. There's no trust to betray there. I might buy something to improve the Neverwinter experiencem with the understanding that I already expect them to be trying to gouge me at every turn.

[thenerfed]

I've attempted to play it.

I'm not a fan of constant mouse-directional. It irks me that I can't POV lock and turn strafe. Too much Quake for me I guess. Do not like the lack of activity in gameplay ... move or attack, no attack on the run, etc.

Quests seem flat. Character generation is essentially a railroad.

No desire to play a D&D flavored Diablo.

Maybe once it gets some legs, some mass behind it and varied options at least at paragon/epic levels.

The default keymaps are decidedly lefty unfriendly. I'll try mapping over most of the main keys to the arrows and keys above them to try to get a workable keymaps. As it is I keep taking one hand off the mouse just for semi-basic attacks.

[Hwesta]

Downloaded Neverwinter and tried it during a previous beta weekend. Not sure why I bothered. The lack of character customization makes it not D&D for me. (Hated 4th ed for that same reason.) Honestly, I'm annoyed because now there can't be a different better D&D MMO set in FR (and yes I realize DDO has FR content too, but I was hoping for something where you start in FR and has a well-built story set there).

[DarkForte]

I was hoping for something where you start in FR and has a well-built story set there

You were hoping for something that doesn't exist.

[thenerfed]

If they werent using the name D&D to market it, most of the debate wouldnt even exist.

This can not be overstated. While there is a certain "dodge mechanic" to give combat slightly more engaging than WoW, there really isn't anything from DDO here (except for the beach; that appears to be a homage considering they didn't touch anything else).

D) Oh yeah. If you don't like the sparklies in NW, turn em off. Problem solved.

Only if there is a helpful wiki with a map. Otherwise you can be endlessly wandering the landscape (I assume it is safe to turn off in a dungeon).

Notes from a basic review:
Started with a greatsword fighter. Dull.
Tried a cleric. For those insisting NWO & 4e are "Dungeons and Dragons", you better find Celimas's (yes, named after her) mace. I can't find it. Basically a weak DPS caster, healing (even self) isn't worth bothering with. Oddly enough, healing companions appear to work fine. I can't imagine bringing one of these in a group and explaining to *everybody* that you don't heal.
Tried a rogue. One little hobbity ball of fury, rogues are generally admitted OP on NVO forums. Recommended if you like that sort of thing.

Other issues? I seem to be rocketing through the levels without stopping. I'm guessing a level every 15 minutes? No idea how this is supposed to be a long term game. Haven't tried the homebrew foundry quests, they will certainly make or break this game. I haven't seen a way (or tried) to repeat a succeeded quest: one less way to force grinding on you (at least until cap). I also hit level 20 (i.e. barely started) and have only seen two "group recommended" quests. I also seem to have run out of quests, but it shouldn't take too long to find more (good time for a foundry quest).

The graphics look great: I think the [static] artists did a great job. The graphics engine also seems to do its job well. Animations aren't really sufficient, I'm guessing they cut corners there. Whats really wrong are the graphics overlays: they spew red lines everywhere there is a "threat" (not always, Ogre clubs are telegraphed well enough they don't bother with red areas). The whole thing looks like an arcade [console for you young'ins] fighting game, not a RPG. As far as combat goes, it is mostly a WoW style "babysit your timeouts" (while mashing the mouse key) and hitting "dodge" when red pops up underneath out (easier said than done on some classes/attacks when attacking roots you. Either rogues are much better at it or I didn't get the hang of it till starting my rogue). Don't try to compare NWO combat to DDO, compare it to WoW or LOTRO.

Overall:
DDO: DDO grabbed me and all I wanted to do was run back to Korthos. It took years before burned out and realized I really didn't want to run another quest.
WoW: You can download the client and play for free up to level 20. I got to level 10 and couldn't be bothered to do a full trial.
LOTRO: Tried (and quickly got tired) of hobbit burglars when it went f2p. After getting tired of DDO I tried it again and it grabbed me for a few months, but nothing like DDO.
NWO: meh. Maybe it is 4e's powers (your mouse button mashing is using your at-will "I swing my sword power") not resembling anything out of Dungeons and Dragons (I still need to choose feats. It looks like respecing is a moneygrab, so I have been avoiding it). Maybe it is the goofy graphics (while not as cartoony as WOW, the HUD overlays on the otherwise realistic graphics make things that much worse). Whatever it is makes this game just not grab me at all.

[~hallenbeck]

Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

Skyships > Airships

If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)

Ya mouse lock was another of those annoying things. I looked high and low sifting through those keymaps, only to find that's it. I mean Ive played with it before.. but that was on a 360 with FFXI. And actually with the way they set it up back then it kinda worked. Got really good with that controller heh.

[~griffin230]

Looks like some people are exploiting the Foundry system in Neverwinter to quickly get to max level in about a day:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/1238...Power-Leveling

[chance2000]

I am still enjoying the game, I have also done the 3 new quests on Lam for update 18 not to bad.
People complain about DDO downtime. What a laugh.
NWO has been down like every other day sometimes multiple times per day.
Seems Cryptic is running all their games on the same network and they are a bit over loaded.
So all Cryptic games are seeing a lot of down time. I know a few in Star Trek online are more than a little upset.
One day due to downtime Neverwinter on twitter reached their message limit.
My time in NWO I have 4 in the mid 20's range Cleric 28, guardian fighter 25, control wizard 23, and a halfling rogue 23.
I thought the dwarf riding the spider looked funny well the halfling riding a spider looks pretty cool.
Where in closed beta some quests you had to have 5 people not sure if that is the max party size.
Now they give you the option of going in as is. You and your companion.
Just like here were lots of folks prefer to spam gen chat for groups instead of the social panel same there.
If anything it is worse there also the people selling stuff is way worse.

[Rubbinns]

Looks like some people are exploiting the Foundry system in Neverwinter to quickly get to max level in about a day:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/1238...Power-Leveling

Was bound to happen, soon as people saw the words player made dungeon. They exposed the lack of end game in Neverwinter and further shows it is a more casual geared product. The people that took a character to 60 would have got there soon anyway even without the Foundry xp farms.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Was bound to happen, soon as people saw the words player made dungeon. They exposed the lack of end game in Neverwinter and further shows it is a more casual geared product. The people that took a character to 60 would have got there soon anyway even without the Foundry xp farms.

Exposed what? It's still in beta dude. "End game" is still under development. There are epic dungeons that work great that are not just carbon copies of content already created. Some of those "player made dungeons" blow away DDO's "professionally made" dungeons. The Foundry is a great concept, and there is so much good content being produced. As for exploits, of course cheaters figure out a way to cheat. Thats what cheaters do. However, Cryptic has been fast to address exploits, which truly have been minimal to date.

[~Nerfbat]

You can turn off zone chat in the chatbox options, you don't miss it. I joined a big guild so that's all the banter I need.

I'm a sucker for skinner boxes (operant conditioning) and I'm playing NWO with someone who is almost immune to it. It's awful.

So when I call out: "Let's do skirmishes for the Astral Diamond reward! We have to do it NAOZ! it's on timer!"
I often get a blank stare.
"But the shinies! We only have to do it three times in an hour. We be able to get shinies, you want shinies right? Shinies man! Shinies!"
I get the reply: "No, I want to play a game, whenever I want."
I gasp "Sh-shinies!... mean nothing..?"

I really enjoy playing the Somethingy Cleric, as I could nuke away and heal at the same time. No more party/raid wipe when you faze out and stare at the ceiling for a minute.

Also, You can gimp a character in NWO and I managed to do just that.
My main tactic of clearing aggro is to just die.
So there is your character customization and tactics right there.

I have an alt that I should have named rat-in-a-box that does skirmishes for shinies. all the daily dungeons,foundries,PvP (I hate pvp! but do them anyway) for more shines. You have certain periods in a day you get extra rewards. I would've postponed, dinner, sleep, life for the extra shinies, but then I'd get ' the stare', or even ' the glare' if I push it. So no can't do. No optimal shiny wield. =( I would have been rich otherwise, rich!

Also every hour you can press a button for random rewards,
a chance for more shinies. Once you have shinies, you can trade for other shinies! But you never have enough shinies no. Oh no..
There are people that pay money for your shinies, and it has a stock exchange ... For BETTER shinies!
Also, if you log in and press button every day you can pick a reward after a few days. a box of random goodness! more shinies! Also if you have logged in and pressed that button every day for one and a half year you get an awesome freakin' PONY!

Shineysplosion!!! *expire*


And now for some education:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/epi...he-skinner-box

Sure, DDO has it's skinner boxes, but NWO way outboxes DDO. All DDO has left is engaging gameplay, mystery and hilarious adventures (Madness chains!).
So yea, it's clear who the winner is right? I thought so. NWO, hands down.
If you excuse me, I have stare at a timer for 1 minute 23 seconds and push some buttons. Coo!

*sigh*
I used to play Dwarf Fortress. What the hell happened to me.

[Rubbinns]

Exposed what? It's still in beta dude. "End game" is still under development. There are epic dungeons that work great that are not just carbon copies of content already created. Some of those "player made dungeons" blow away DDO's "professionally made" dungeons. The Foundry is a great concept, and there is so much good content being produced. As for exploits, of course cheaters figure out a way to cheat. Thats what cheaters do. However, Cryptic has been fast to address exploits, which truly have been minimal to date.

No raids, dude. Capped players aren't going to run a few 5 man dungeons. Guess foundry is the only thing they can do now. Foundry is a great concept.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

No raids, dude. Capped players aren't going to run a few 5 man dungeons. Guess foundry is the only thing they can do now. Foundry is a great concept.

Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

See for our guild, its not a this or that thing. It's an AND thing. Well with one exception. Some are totally fed up with DDO or just looking for a change. Instead of saying goodby to DDO and Tyrs, they are playing Neverwinter.. still happily in guild and enjoying some good mindless D&D fun.

So Id say Neverwinter is more than making it worth the venture for us.

[Rubbinns]

Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

The end game content that they prepared is pretty shallow unless counting the player made foundry. Raids are highly sought after and they even thought about going up to 20, now it's only 10 players, in theory. They have only implemented 5 man runs in practice.

The game is a lot easier than DDO.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

The end game content that they prepared is pretty shallow unless counting the player made foundry. Raids are highly sought after and they even thought about going up to 20, now it's only 10 players, in theory. They have only implemented 5 man runs in practice.

You are all over the place. Epic content is not easy compared to DDO, is very well thought out, and was created way way before Turbine launched its first epic content (years before).

You don't really understand what beta means, not getting that you start at zero then you build, and definitely have a warped sense of NWO history. Out of the things people are requesting to be coded next, raids would be there but waaaaay down on the list. You just don't know what you are talking about.

[Rubbinns]

You are all over the place. Epic content is not easy compared to DDO, is very well thought out, and was created way way before Turbine launched its first epic content (years before).

You don't really understand what beta means, not getting that you start at zero then you build, and definitely have a warped sense of NWO history. Out of the things people are requesting to be coded next, raids would be there but waaaaay down on the list. You just don't know what you are talking about.

I'm in one place. Their epic content is thin right now.

The game is much easier than DDO, stop it. Thing is a snooze fest.

[~bob117]

So far i capped my wiz and tanker.

Both were very fun journey to level 60. The monotony of killing 10 things/getting ten things/going here and going there then going back is a bit hard to stomach for most. I think neverwinter needs more dungeons for leveling aside from Foundry. I do however love foundry and every aspect of it. It is friggen awesome. It is every dm's dream come true and is super fun seeing all the maps and stories the player base creates. In my honest opinion this is where the core D&D fans hang out. In foundry. The rest of the game not so much.

My biggest pet peave about nwo is the community. So many mean people who only care about gear score and pvp. It is so not D&D! That type of behavior is alien to me. I am used to DDO people and our community of kind laid back players. Even their forums are full of trash talking smack hurling kids whining about pvp and gearscores. It is kinda ******** to say the least.

That said i enjoy neverwinter. I love the fact i played the whole game 100% free to cap. That was pretty sweet. I would gladly have bought NWO for 50-60 bucks and probably will spend some coin on it soon. The cash grabs are plentiful like this game but i think Turbine could learn from them and open up more of the DDO for free. Would attract more players to this game and god knows we need it.

Basically for me DDO has 3 things that i adore and keep me playing. the 3 C's

1. Combat - hands down the best in your face hack and slasher I have ever played. Turbine nailed this ! No company has yet to replicate it either.
2. Customization- Can make a character anyway you want in ddo. It really has freedom to create your perfect toon.
3. Community* We have or had some of the best .... I put a * beside this because i think the forums being changed and losing our blogs, myddo and online resources really has hurt DDO the past month . Turbine needs to do some community PR and fast because it is sad to see our community in limbo right now. It is like everyone vanished when the forums changed. If the community goes the game dies. Simple as that!

Basically , We will never be able to replace DDO with any other type of game. It is a one of a kind. NWO is very generic feeling. Sure it has its lore and some story along with D&D creatures but it does not feel like D&D to me as much as this game does.


Nwo is good, Don't get me wrong, But DDO is great! Turbine Needs to pull some tricks outta there sleaves this year. We need something huge and fast . Also we need the darned forums working to nurse the community back to health.

Just my 2 cents. I Really love DDo and hope it can rebound back this summer!

[TheNewSlarden]

Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

See for our guild, its not a this or that thing. It's an AND thing. Well with one exception. Some are totally fed up with DDO or just looking for a change. Instead of saying goodby to DDO and Tyrs, they are playing Neverwinter.. still happily in guild and enjoying some good mindless D&D fun.

So Id say Neverwinter is more than making it worth the venture for us.

Yeah it seems a lot of people think these things about NWO are positives and not negatives. NWO is a good game. DDO is a good game.

[Chai]

Its not the game that kills it for NWO, its the people. There are a few things they need to straighten out over there before it will become a good game.

1. Leader can kick another player from group at any time. If they are second in PVP score, kick first place player, take their reward. If they dont like the fact that someone wins most of the loot, kick them out of the dungeon - etc. People being randomly booted from groups at the end has reached a point of hilarity where their forums are in an uproar about it.

2. Lots of account hacking. People being booted mid game only to find out their email address and log in have been changed.

3. Loot system of need/greed. Everyone uses need on all loot and sells it on the AH. Loot only equipable by specific class it drops for.

4. PVP where showing up earns the same amount of glory points as those who actually play. This results in people AFKing the entire match. Sometimes leaders kick those people, but sometimes the leader is one of the AFKers, and everyone sits around waiting for the timer to run out.

5. Queueing instead of grouping for highest level content. /fail.

[~griffin230]

Its not the game that kills it for NWO, its the people. There are a few things they need to straighten out over there before it will become a good game.

1. Leader can kick another player from group at any time. If they are second in PVP score, kick first place player, take their reward. If they dont like the fact that someone wins most of the loot, kick them out of the dungeon - etc. People being randomly booted from groups at the end has reached a point of hilarity where their forums are in an uproar about it.

2. Lots of account hacking. People being booted mid game only to find out their email address and log in have been changed.

3. Loot system of need/greed. Everyone uses need on all loot and sells it on the AH. Loot only equipable by specific class it drops for.

4. PVP where showing up earns the same amount of glory points as those who actually play. This results in people AFKing the entire match. Sometimes leaders kick those people, but sometimes the leader is one of the AFKers, and everyone sits around waiting for the timer to run out.

5. Queueing instead of grouping for highest level content. /fail.

There does seem to be a lot of dissatisfaction being expressed in the Neverwinter forums. There are many people complaining about exploits that allow easy farming of the highest tier gear - so nothing left to do afterwards when everything can be sold on the AH and bought from the AH, repetitive boss mechanics (spawn adds, then spawn some more adds), loot system that allows loot ninja-ing, queuing system that doesn't check for roles in the party etc.