The Official Barbarian Enhancements Discussion Thread!

[mezzorco]

I was thinking about a dwarf ravager, with "Throw Your Weight Around" and greataxe enhancement line. Maxing con i think he would do great, thus rising Visage of Terror DC and extending rage duration, but maybe he will end up having low AB.
Anyway str is needed for THF line as well as overwhelming crit, not counting tactical feats (although you will have hands of stone - stunning with con based DC).
My question is, how to balance such a con based build, taking advantage of the "Throw Your Weight Around" enhancement?
Dwarves seem to have potential as barbarians now again, back in the days when half orcs didn't exist, but there are a lot of drawbacks :\

[Failedlegend]

Barbarian

Again the 3 trees here mix fairly well

Ravager

- Furious Rage I love this one...I get this funny vision of a DnD player getting ****ed because he rolled a one and uses a more powerful attack to spite the things he missed

- I love the Ravager capstone Save and be Paralyzed or Die...nice and flavourful and quite potent

- I like that extend rage is a tier 1 ability so it's easily accessed by non-ravager Barbs. I would still rather see a "General Class" tab for stuff like that and just have to stuff unique to ravager within the tree.

- I like how ritual scarring gives a bonus to haggle...can't really complain about a bonus that everyone uses (and that it comes with Intim/PRR) but it's just really funny envisioning a merchant giving you better prices because they fear you...very appropriate guys.

- Hate threat generate and more damage...whats not to like

- The Pain line just makes me smile and is quite potent.

- Anyways you get the idea...when I first heard the rumor that Ravager was gonna be one of the 3 Barb Prestiges I was a little worried it would just be boring and +X damage and +X crit and son on but you guys did a great job making it flavourful and fun

Frenzied Barb

- Frenzied Barb I won't say much on because it's really not my type of Barb but my friend is salavting over it...in short it does what it's supposed it allows for massive damage at the cost of defense and even mutilating one self in the process..the only thing I'd like to see is the ANgry Arms, Mad Munitions and Focus Wide increase your weapons reach somewhat.

Frenzied Barb

- Frenzied Barb I won't say much on because it's really not my type of Barb but my friend is salavting over it...in short it does what it's supposed it allows for massive damage at the cost of defense and even mutilating one self in the process..the only thing I'd like to see is the ANgry Arms, Mad Munitions and Focus Wide increase your weapons reach somewhat.

Occult Slayer

- Now Occult Slayer...prepare for the long haul...THIS is how I envision Barbarians...your not really a defender leave that to the Fighters, Paladins and Wakut/Tukaw Battle Mages. Your jump is to rush the line, jump over it and smash those puny little spallcasters skulls in...this is the prestige I was waiting for.

- All the Core enhancements are great although I honestly will probably never use the active portion of Weapon Bond (+5 to attack) the bonuses you get from having the bond are just to awesome and a bonus to attack rolls is fairly meh...I'd love it if it applied an effect to your weapon for 12s that causes x% Spell Failure (for any spell not just Arcane) per hit

- Anyways core...2nd core is just a straight up bonus bonus to saving throws and not that I'm complaining but each core ability adds + 1 to your DR...its a good bonus but an odd one for Occult Slayer I'd say make it +1 will save instead

- Core #3 is really nice but it clashes with Vampiric Bond which is gonna go off far more often (your more likely to attack something than your are gonna get hit by magic) I'd like to see Vampiric bond switch with elemental defense than have Elemental defense (as a tier 5 ability) drain Mana and convert it to an equal amount of [url =http://ddowiki.com/page/Protection_from_Elements]Protection from Elements[/quote] IOW if I drain say 5 Mana I gain 5 pts. of each element as the Prot from Elements Spells. Have this happen on-hit in small amounts or just have it happen on Crit 10 pts. per Bard level (so 200 at Lvl 20)


- Core # 4: Slippery Mind - This one is awesome..free feats are great but not only is this perfect flavour wise it's also normally a Rogue only feat so good stuff Note: This Ability say +1 Barb DR twice...dunno if thats intended or not.

- Core # 5: Force Ward - Immunity to Magic Missiles AND 5% chance to essentially "dodge" any force damage nice (honestly when I first say this I thought it 5% reduction in force damage..that was really meh...so luckily I was wrong )

- Core# 6: Mind over Magic - This either awesome or terrible depending on how it's read I'm pretty sure it means if I have 20 Constitution I have 20 SR but it could be read as Con MOd...which I'm 99% sure it isn't...any chance I can get some clarification.

- Ear Smash/Knockout: The former is really thematic and quite helpful...even just using that on an enemy healer can make the difference between victory and failure and the sleep/stun of Knock out is useful for everything

- All the weapon bond stuff: Bonus AC not great but it offsets the penalty from Raging so good and really with the new system every pooint of AC helps so really can't complain. PRR woot, Higher critical (especially awesome with no HP req.), Temp HP granted Vampiric bond (see core # 4 for comments), DR bypassing (would like to see this be metalline but otherwise can't complain), extra force damage. Woo I cannot wait to actually play this with my friends on live.

- Arcane encumbrance/Vicious Strike...hahaha punish those buggers for daring to attack me I love it and if that doesn't punish them for casting with PAIN!!!

- Anti-maqic Boost - I personally don't like boosts but for people who do this quite a nice boost.

- Lessons of Travel - Ah the non-boost version I like this

- Lessons of Nature - Kinda meh to be honest...tis a shame its a requirement for Vampiric bond because otherwise I could just ignore it...I'd save replace it with some sort of bonus vs. Undead (namely Vampires)...makes more sense to be a pre-req of Vampiric bond anyways.

[thegreatfox]

- Core# 6: Mind over Magic - This either awesome or terrible depending on how it's read I'm pretty sure it means if I have 20 Constitution I have 20 SR but it could be read as Con MOd...which I'm 99% sure it isn't...any chance I can get some clarification.

It is based on actual Con score. On lammania I had 50 con, and thus 50 spell resistance, which did not stack with a spell resistance item, I think it says it doesn't stack with drow spell resistance or at one point said that, and I assume not with the spell resistance spell. Not really sure how much spell penetration mobs have, so I'm not really sure if the 50 I had is enough to be an amazing defense against spells or not, but it's certainly more than you will get from any other source. If your con increases such as through raging/primal scream, the spell resistance also rises accordingly. Of the 3 capstones I think this one might be the best with ravager in second. Ravagers is nice but the 1 rage activation cost to kill a single trash mob is a bit pricey.

[Delacroix21]

I know that this isn't a super in depth review, but its short and to the point:

Occult Slayer:
Fun, good abilities, interesting concept

Cons: weapon bond takes to long to build, reduce weapon bond thingies by half or more

Ravager:
Decent, crit range capstone is strong

Cons: remove the 1 per second on bonus damage, stat damage does nothing in EE, fix needed


Frenzied berserker:
Absolutely horrible

Cons: to many abilities that damage health, this PrE commits suicide while trying to deal damage. Gone are the days where party members would babysit an insane damage dealing barbarian, as now other classes can do the same amount of damage or more and take less damage. This PrE is awful solo as it kills itself, and will be booted from parties as SO MANY lfms these days state: BYOH. Heal blotting is NOT fun, and this class has all but died off in DDO recently, this PrE murders it.




Overall, give barbarians more ways to get temp hit points. This class takes so much damage compared to others, and people hate healing them. Barbarians should do more damage then they do, but an extra 8-10 strength is nothing these days. I am not sure what to do to make this class at least equal to a fighter in terms of dps, while having way less survive ability.

[Delacroix21]

You need to make DR be counted AFTER PRR, that would increase their survivability a bit. How about making barbarians get double bonus from +hp items like a sorcerer with spell point items? I am not sure how to address barbs desire ability in groups.


At some point in DDO clerics and fvs just decided they don't want to healbot anymore (dont blame them), and you see so many BYoH LFMs these days.

[Alkot]

Having perused this tree a few times and now more recently looking at the original class ravager I believe that this tree should really get a revamp on a number of its abilities.(Think warchanter tree size change)


First off I think this tree has too little to do with the original class, namely the requirement to be evil and the cut self to activate abilities type effects. I think within the cores there should be one ap that changes your alignment to evil(players have been asking for this for years). The sla type sacrifice abilities should also be tired in as I said, blood lightning blood fireballs and ofc you would need to include fast healing.


Now for the actual tree components:




Furious Rage - Requires: Barbarian Level 1 - When you are raging and miss your attack by rolling 1, you gain Fury for 6 seconds. Fury: +1 Competence bonus to attack and damage. This effect stacks and one stack fades every 6 seconds.
An odd mechanic I think, miss to do more damage? Consider a +1damage +1dr per core ap aquired.
Pain Touch - Requires: Furious Rage(Rank 1), Barbarian Level 3, 5 Points Spent in Tree - Your melee attacks deal 1d6 extra damage. This damage triggers at most once per second.
This really needs to be unthrottled to each attack

Demoralizing Success - Requires: Pain Touch(Rank 1), Barbarian Level 6, 10 Points Spent In Tree - When you score a vorpal hit in melee, you inflict Crushing Despair on nearby enemies for 30 seconds on a failed DC 20 Will saving throw. You then inflict Vulnerable Will for 15 seconds, regardless of the Crushing Despair saving throw.
I have no idea why this would have such a small dc, consider removing the dc overall or extending it the dc by barb level or strength modifier.

Pain Touch - Requires: Demoralizing Success(Rank 1), Barbarian Level 12, 20 Points Spent In Tree - Upgrades Pain Touch so your melee attacks deal 2d6 extra damage. This damage triggers at most once per second.
Again unthrottle.

Subsiding Fury - Requires: Pain Touch(Rank 1), Barbarian Level 18, 30 Points Spent In Tree - When you use Barbarian Rage, you gain 3 stacks of Fury. Fury: +1 Competence bonus to attack and damage. This effect stacks and one stack fades every six seconds.I again do not like this fury mechanic at all, I would just cut it out. This seems like a good place to add blood lightning to me

Visage of Terror - Requires: Subsiding Fury(Rank 1), Barbarian Level 20, 40 Points Spent In Tree - Terrorize an enemy, killing them with fear if they fail a Will save vs. 10 + Con mod + half barbarian level. Enemies who make their saving throw are briefly paralyzed with fear instead. Costs 1 Rage. Cooldown: 30 seconds
I have many problems with this capstone. Firstly it is far to weak, i would never take this over a splash of rogue or ftr. This capstone does not give any type of stat, I would say +2str and con would fit well. Lastly, visage of terror is horrible. The dc as it stands is like quivering palm, no one will ever get a viable dc without the new mod items. Consider changing the base to 20. Also expending rages is just not a viable concept for any barbarian, could use this at most once per shrine if that, replace the rage expenditure with an hp cut. 50-100hp should be enough to keep it balenced.
Tier 1


Ritual scarring - Requires: Barbarian Level 1 - +1/+2/+3 Intimidate, Haggle, PRR
Flavorful but I would like to see the unnatural stamina mixed in here, remove incap so that u can attack till u die at -10.
Hate - Requires: Barb Level 1 - Attack: Deals +0.5/1+1/+1.5[W] damage & guarantees extra threat. Cooldown: 15 seconds
Not too far off just a bit behind the curve, top tier should be 2[w], lower cd to 7-10sec
Do you like pain? - Requires: Barb Level 1 - When you are hit: 20/40/60% chance attacker loses 10 AC.
AC loss mechanics have lost a lot of luster, throw in a -10% fort as well.
Cruel Cut - Requires: Barb Level 1 - Melee Attack: Deals 1d6/2d6/3d6 extra con damage as long as you damage your target. Cooldown: 30 seconds.
While at heroic 1-6 this could be powerful enough to helpless alot of mobs this will be completely useless in epic content
Hardy Rage - Requires: Barb Level 1 - +1/+2/+3 Con when raging
Tier 2


Fear Me! - Requires: Ritual Scarring(Rank 1), Barb Level 2 - When you intimidate, affected enemies are Shaken for 6 seconds. DC13
This is just bad imo, few barb tanks fewer who intim and even fewer who would ever want a dc13 shaken on their intim. This does remind me of the draconic roar from DI consider using a similar mechanic?
Mutilate - Requires: Hate(Rank 1), Barb Level 2 - Hate additionally deals 1d4 Charisma damage & 1d4 Evil damage
I like that this does evil damage and adds on to a previous attack, however the values are to little. I also think the range of stat dmg in this tree is too broad, -2 to each stat of a mob is very negligible and even more so to a melee. Cosider changing to 5d4 evil damge.
I like Pain. - Requires: Do you like pain?(Rank 1), Barb Level 2 - When you are hit: Small chance to gain 50 Temp HP.
I think that I like this but I would need to see an exact proc rate first.
Action Boost: Damage(1/3) - Requires: Barb Level 2 - Activate this ability to receive a 10% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 30 seconds.
As an idea for fast healing for ravagers consider making it an action boost, multiple selector with dmg boost and do somthing like: For the next 30seconds you gain 5hp per second.
Tier 3


Aura of Fear(1/3) - Requires: Barb Level 3 - Nearby enemies receive a -2 penalty to Strength & Charisma
A fear aura sounds great for ravager just not this one. Change to -2damage -5ac -2saves.
Slaughter(1/3) - Requires: Barb Level 3 - Melee Attack: Deals +5[W] damage. Cooldown: 2 minutes.
As this stands this is one terrible combat move. 2min cooldown will never work on a melee attack, it just wont be remembered enough for how powerful this move is. Consider changing this to +2crit range 10[w] for a cost of 25hp or move the cooldown to the 20sec range.
Festering Wound(1/3) - Requires: Cruel Cut(Rank 1), Barb Level 3 - Cruel Cut additionally inflicts 1d6 Poison damage every 2 seconds & the target loses -50% healing amp for 5 seconds.
Extend this to 12sec, raise the posion damage to 2d6. At thsi point you are starting to get a pretty effective attack.
Con(1/1) - Req: Barb Level 3 - AP Cost: 2 - +1 Con
This should include strength
Tier 4


Laughter(1/1) - Requires: Slaughter (Rank 1), Barb Level 4, 20 Points Spent In Tree - Action Point Cost: 2 - When Slaughter damages an enemy, you gain Fury. When Slaughter scores a crit hit on an enemy, you gain a 2nd stack of Fury. When Slaughter scores a vorpal hit on an enemy, you gain a 3rd stack of Fury. Fury: +1 Competence bonus to attack and damage. This effect stacks and one stack fades every six seconds.With a shortened cooldown on slautghter this mechanic would work much better but, 6sec stacks are too low to ever get them to stack very high.
I Hit Back!(1/3) - Requires: I like Pain.(Rank 1), Barb Level 4, 20 Points Spent In Tree - When you are hit: 20% chance to deal 2d8 chaotic damage to attacker.I like this but consider adding a crippling effect or possibly 1neg level on proc.
Dismember(1/3) - Requires: Festering Wound(Rank 1), Barb Level 4, 20 Points Spent In Tree - Melee Attack: Enemy movement speed is slowed, or attack speed is slowed, or receives 2d4 chaotic damage, or receives 6d4 chaotic damage.
I like the randomness of this randomness consider making the slow portions perma and the chaotic damage scale for leveling: 1d2 per barb level and 1d6 per barb level.
Con(1/1) - Requires: Barb Level 4, 20 Points Spent In Tree - AP Cost: 2 - Gain +1 Con.
[edit] Tier 5

This by far is the best tier for ravager and doesn't need any removal, but the addition I listed could be nice and flavorful.

Barbarian Power Attack(1/3) - Requires: Barb Level 5, 40 Points Spent In Tree - Action Point Cost: 2 - Your Power Attack feat does 1 addtional point of bonus damage but also has an additional -1 to your attack bonus.
Next to power attack add a stance that increases your pain touch by 1d6 per rank and deals 1 damage to you on hit.
Bully(1/3) - Requires: I Hit Back!(Rank 1), Barb Level 5, 40 Points Spent In Tree - You deal +5% damage to helpless enemies.
Critical Rage(1/2) - Requires: Dismember(Rank 1), Barb Level 5, 40 Points Spent In Tree - Action Point Cost: 2 - Increases your crit threat range by 1 when raging.

[Alkot]

bumping this thread because i really think these trees still need work