Tier 5 enhancements now reduced to 30 AP

[Deadlock]

And tier 4 racial have been reduced to 15 AP.

A step in the right direction at least.

Now all my min/max sorc has to decide is whether to finish off with Fire Savant, Earth Savant..

Can't spend my last 8 points to get Toughness because of prereq's. Decisions decisions.

But at least one arm is burny and the other is stony, so that's nice

EDIT: Capstone is still 40 AP.

[JOTMON]

Still a fail from what I see..

They have scattered Core class abilities throught the Class Tree's
So now you have to spend into prestiges to get what should be a basic core ability.

Racial Tree still has AP required and not enough things to choose from for fillers.
So still have to spend points on scrap to get what you want resulting in wasted AP's.

Multiclasses still have AP requirements in each tree to unlock stuff that has been scattered about.

The whole many tree layout is just wrong..

Racial/Core class abilities should have been the trunk of a single main tree with Prestiges being Branches into specialty focus areas.
General/versatile builds can dabble in each tree and still get all core abilities without going deep into a prestige and still be a viable build.
While those that choose to Focus on a prestige would invest heavily into a specific line.
These Focussed area's should give heavier bonusses to the are being specialized with negatives to opposing tree's.
More like Sorc Elemental focus where investing into Ice weakens you Fire ability..

All I see are scatterings of crappy choices spread among a few tree's, where there should be twice as many choices.
And basic core class abilities that are only accessible by investing into a non-preferred tree.

I see more Pidgeon-holing coming out of this enhancement pass as they try to dumb down the system and force people into predefined tree's.

Reminds me of the Wow templates.. and I used to laugh at my friends who played WOW because their system was so restrictive and they could tell me everything there is to know about a player by just looking at them.
I told them DDO is way more complicated and better in that you can build almost any combination you like to fit your playstile and still have a viable toon.
You couldn't look at a player and be able to duplicate their build 100% there was just too many variables.
Now I look at the tree's and think... huh... wow....

[kingfisher]

Now I look at the tree's and think... huh... wow....

awesome.

the wowification continues! coming soon: warlocks!

[TGOskar]

awesome.

the wowification continues! coming soon: warlocks!

Actually, that wouldn't be so bad.

Eldritch Blast that improves with level (1d6/2 levels) instead of an attack (with stuff such as Hideous Blow to add the damage to melee attacks), a choice of invocations, UMD as a class skill, and the best:

NO SP WHATSOEVER!!!

So I wouldn't see this as a bad idea... Then again, considering how this goes...

[Asketes]

They have scattered Core class abilities throught the Class Tree's
So now you have to spend into prestiges to get what should be a basic core ability.

Racial Tree still has AP required and not enough things to choose from for fillers.
So still have to spend points on scrap to get what you want resulting in wasted AP's.

Multiclasses still have AP requirements in each tree to unlock stuff that has been scattered about.

Racial/Core class abilities should have been the trunk of a single main tree with Prestiges being Branches into specialty focus areas.

General/versatile builds can dabble in each tree and still get all core abilities without going deep into a prestige and still be a viable build.

While those that choose to Focus on a prestige would invest heavily into a specific line.

These are fantastic points and I wish them to be addressed in this enhancement pass.

[Qezuzu]

awesome.

the wowification continues! coming soon: warlocks!

Warlock is actually a class in 3.5 and 4 DnD.

[SilkofDrasnia]

*snip*

Racial/Core class abilities should have been the trunk of a single main tree with Prestiges being Branches into specialty focus areas.
General/versatile builds can dabble in each tree and still get all core abilities without going deep into a prestige and still be a viable build.
While those that choose to Focus on a prestige would invest heavily into a specific line.
*snip*

This is what I was expecting with the new pass. They need to change this instead of making this DDO for dummies.

[Cetus]

What is the point of lowering the AP cost to 30, when the capstone still needs 40?

I'm still spending 42 points in one tree, after investing in a bunch've useless enhancements anyway.

Lower the capstone requirement to 30 and now you have something, for now this is of no consequence.

[Jay203]

What is the point of lowering the AP cost to 30, when the capstone still needs 40?

I'm still spending 42 points in one tree, after investing in a bunch've useless enhancements anyway.

Lower the capstone requirement to 30 and now you have something, for now this is of no consequence.

i think they may be trying to prevent a character from taking multiple capstones

[CoasterHops]

i think they may be trying to prevent a character from taking multiple capstones

Maybe they should implement a lock, you take one capstone and all others are locked.... seems pretty sensible to me.

[~Weiquinn_LandWalker]

This may be a dumb question, but can you take multiple Tier 5 enhancements from your Class Tree or are you limited to one Tier 5 enhancement in your Class Tree?

[~Hexfax]

This may be a dumb question, but can you take multiple Tier 5 enhancements from your Class Tree or are you limited to one Tier 5 enhancement in your Class Tree?

I'm pretty sure you can pick as many tier 5 abilities in a single tree, but you're locked out of tier 5 abilities in other trees. And of course, the Core Ability Capstone is limited to pure classes and you're logged out of other capstones due to lack of AP.

If this isn't the case, then many of the tier 5 abilities need a severe boost in power.

[~SeikojinSama]

I'm pretty sure you can pick as many tier 5 abilities in a single tree, but you're locked out of tier 5 abilities in other trees. And of course, the Core Ability Capstone is limited to pure classes and you're logged out of other capstones due to lack of AP.

If this isn't the case, then many of the tier 5 abilities need a severe boost in power.

Tier 5's can be purchased from any tree you have the qualifactions for. So you could, get tier 5's from two seperate trees for the same class. AFAIK, this may be intended, since the core abilities are the true hallmarks of the class.

The core abilities; you can only capstone in one tree. the requirement of 40AP bars you from being able to get that 40 in another tree.

[Vargouille]

I'm pretty sure you can pick as many tier 5 abilities in a single tree, but you're locked out of tier 5 abilities in other trees. And of course, the Core Ability Capstone is limited to pure classes and you're logged out of other capstones due to lack of AP.

This is the currently intended design.

[Talan]

This is the currently intended design.

Thanks. Will the minimum levels for core abilities be looked at. By way of example on live my Virtuoso bard can take his song regeneration ability at level 12. Now he would have to wait until level 18 reducing functionality whilst levelling and in fact breaking this ability from the final build, which is a traditional 16/2/2 split. This is a common issue for many builds with more than 2 levels of multi-class.

For the same reason it would help version try of multi-class build choices if the first level restricted core ability for most trees could be taken at class level 2 rather than 3.

[~Hexfax]

Thanks. Will the minimum levels for core abilities be looked at. By way of example on live my Virtuoso bard can take his song regeneration ability at level 12. Now he would have to wait until level 18 reducing functionality whilst levelling and in fact breaking this ability from the final build, which is a traditional 16/2/2 split. This is a common issue for many builds with more than 2 levels of multi-class.

For the same reason it would help version try of multi-class build choices if the first level restricted core ability for most trees could be taken at class level 2 rather than 3.

I think having the Core Abilities at an uniformed static level at each rank is something that should should stay. With that said, I do think the Devs need to re-adjust many of the abilities that were pushed to a higher level than on the Live server. Something that was available at level 12 on Live should still be available at that level and not pushed up 6 more levels, such as your example. Especially if it was part of an unfinished prestige class. It is a bit annoying that old abilities are pushed further up the levels instead of newer, shinier and more powerful stuff is added for the higher levels.

[Deadlock]

Tier 5 Class abilities now have an additonal requirement of ML 12 added to them - presumably to stop a level 5 character going crazy and spending their 20 AP on Tier 5 stuff and waltzing through content designed for level 6 to 11 characters with ease?

Can't see any other changes to racial or class restrictions at the moment, but will update if I come across any.

At the risk of sounding prematurely negative, I'm not seeing any changes that we've been hoping for. AP requirements are still based on the specific Prestige Tree and not a total of the spend in the Class Trees as we had hoped, or based on All Trees as we had dreamed of.

Likewise, not come across any pre-requisites being removed, like the now notoriously badly designed requirement to spend AP in Wand Heightening before you can spend AP in Wand and Scroll Mastery. Any chance that we can get some official word on whether this is being addressed? I suspect for a lot of people, if we can find out early that these restrictions are pretty much set in stone, then we can decide for ourselves whether it's worth investing any more time in partipating in surveys or spending time on Lama land testing.

[~Weiquinn_LandWalker]

Have feat requirements changed for prestige enhancements (eg. Weapon Focus: Ranged and Mental Toughness for Arcane Archer)?

[~Hexfax]

Tier 5 Class abilities now have an additonal requirement of ML 12 added to them - presumably to stop a level 5 character going crazy and spending their 20 AP on Tier 5 stuff and waltzing through content designed for level 6 to 11 characters with ease?

Can't see any other changes to racial or class restrictions at the moment, but will update if I come across any.

At the risk of sounding prematurely negative, I'm not seeing any changes that we've been hoping for. AP requirements are still based on the specific Prestige Tree and not a total of the spend in the Class Trees as we had hoped, or based on All Trees as we had dreamed of.

Likewise, not come across any pre-requisites being removed, like the now notoriously badly designed requirement to spend AP in Wand Heightening before you can spend AP in Wand and Scroll Mastery. Any chance that we can get some official word on whether this is being addressed? I suspect for a lot of people, if we can find out early that these restrictions are pretty much set in stone, then we can decide for ourselves whether it's worth investing any more time in partipating in surveys or spending time on Lama land testing.

I'm pretty sure the level 12 ML was there the whole time. I seriously doubt the Devs have done any changes, besides the AP drop for Tier 5 enhancements. We only got the last set of trees less than a week ago and all of the surveys were reposted on two days ago. That's not exactly alot of time to address the consequences of balancing the trees between the various multiclass and pure builds.

[~Weiquinn_LandWalker]

Does the AP cost of the Core Abilities count towards AP requirements to unlock the higher tiers?