Stalwart Defender Shield Requirement

[Bilger]

I am trying to understand why it is required to have a shield for SD.

Are you trying to kill TWF tanks?

Some of us have TWF builds that use SD and tank. (yes besides what others say it is possible to tank while TWF with ac, prr, dodge, and saves)

With this change to SD enhancements multiple builds will be ruined.

If going to keep the shield requirement, answer me this, why isn't the shield on flawless not working as a shield. It does for Unyielding in Epic Destinies for shield bonuses?

Yes I bug reported it.

If going to keep shield requirement then the shield + like on white armor should effect this.

White atm is only one with this property other than shield wands. Make me understand the thoughts behind this please makes no sense to me.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

This requirement sucks big time. Sure, have enhancements in there that beef up shield usage - that's the proper place to put them. But it's not proper to have 90% of the enhancements non-functional without a shield. The stalwart stance in particular shouldn't require a shield in order to confer any benefit. Combined with how ridiculously expensive everything in here is, this section needs a lot of work.

[InsanityIsYourFriend]

make it if you have a shield bonus at all it gives you all effects! (go shield wand UMD!)
Question has anyone checked if these bonuses work with a rune arm or an orb?

[bhgiant]

It's a bug, I bug reported it so it has to be.

In all seriousness I sent in a bug report about this. There's been enough negative feedback about it. Everyone seems to be in agreement that the requirement is restrictive, completely unnecessary and spoils the prestige. I wouldn't be surprised if they change it.

[Ape_Man]

This change is completely unacceptable as stated below.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=414774

Don't worry, the fanboi sycophants will be here shortly to "correct" you.

[Bowser_Koopa]

Really how are you going to be Stalwart without a shield i mean look at the definition, how could you think anyone without a big shield is going to defend you loyally, reliably, and work hard at it without a giant shield to protect themselves and you. This is just silly especially Ape_Man who thinks of someone with not one but two weapons to be defending anything, they're attacking obviously they only care about offense else they would have a defensive piece of gear in their off hand. Turbine I hope you leave this the way it is so that i know when i play my squishy healer or some other random toon that the guy with a shield is a stalwart defender not the guy who thinks a weapon can be used for defense.

Adjective
Loyal, reliable, and hardworking: "he remained a stalwart supporter of the cause".
Noun
A loyal, reliable, and hardworking supporter or participant in an organization or team: "the stalwarts of the Ladies' Auxiliary".
Synonyms
sturdy - stout - strong - robust - firm - lusty - hefty

Bowserkoopa,

The above post is obviously totally serious and Turbine is awesome and lag is a myth.

[Ape_Man]

Really how are you going to be Stalwart without a shield i mean look at the definition, how could you think anyone without a big shield is going to defend you loyally, reliably, and work hard at it without a giant shield to protect themselves and you. This is just silly especially Ape_Man who thinks of someone with not one but two weapons to be defending anything, they're attacking obviously they only care about offense else they would have a defensive piece of gear in their off hand. Turbine I hope you leave this the way it is so that i know when i play my squishy healer or some other random toon that the guy with a shield is a stalwart defender not the guy who thinks a weapon can be used for defense.

Adjective
Loyal, reliable, and hardworking: "he remained a stalwart supporter of the cause".
Noun
A loyal, reliable, and hardworking supporter or participant in an organization or team: "the stalwarts of the Ladies' Auxiliary".
Synonyms
sturdy - stout - strong - robust - firm - lusty - hefty

Bowserkoopa,

The above post is obviously totally serious and Turbine is awesome and lag is a myth.

You are maybe a CR45 troll, not troll enough to take seriously.

You're semi-troll. You're quasi-troll. You're the margarine of troll. You're the Diet Coke of troll. Just one calorie, not troll enough.

The Paladin defender tree has no such ridiculous requirement.

PS: "Fanboikoopa" has a nice ring to it, perhaps for your bardcher?

[Xandrel]

Turbine I hope you leave this the way it is so that i know when i play my squishy healer or some other random toon that the guy with a shield is a stalwart defender not the guy who thinks a weapon can be used for defense.

I agree totally, Stalwarts should have a shield to maintain their stance.

Though, I think switching a weapon to a wand should not kick you out of stance.

But the shield should be a requirement....

[IronClan]

I agree totally, Stalwarts should have a shield to maintain their stance.

Though, I think switching a weapon to a wand should not kick you out of stance.

But the shield should be a requirement....

The wording is conspicuous "melee weapon" makes me wonder if a Casting stick or anything with an "implement bonus" will knock you out of SD stance. Can anyone on Lam actually test that?

I say this with "IronNoggin" a would be Dwarven Defender Wizard in Ron's character planner, as well as "IronDuergar" a Dwarven Bard S&B using Hammer of the Leaden Clouds (has an implement bonus) that's at mid levels, also created with Defender PrE in mind.

[Ape_Man]

The wording is conspicuous "melee weapon" makes me wonder if a Casting stick or anything with an "implement bonus" will knock you out of SD stance. Can anyone on Lam actually test that?

I say this with "IronNoggin" a would be Dwarven Defender Wizard in Ron's character planner, as well as "IronDuergar" a Dwarven Bard S&B using Hammer of the Leaden Clouds (has an implement bonus) that's at mid levels, also created with Defender PrE in mind.

This whole "must be S&B" stupidity is to prevent the "OP" combinations of Dorf/WF stalwart casters. Those builds would be gimped anyway because there's no way in hell they'll have the AP to not be terrible.

Look a the pally defender stuff . . . no S&B requirement for stance . . . because Turbine has no need to "fear" this.

[Ape_Man]

I agree totally, Stalwarts should have a shield to maintain their stance.

Though, I think switching a weapon to a wand should not kick you out of stance.

But the shield should be a requirement....

Just to judge the "informed" nature of people opinions . . . do you even know what stalwart stance does?

[Xandrel]

Just to judge the "informed" nature of people opinions . . . do you even know what stalwart stance does?

I don't feed trolls, I slay them.

To me it makes sense that a shield would be needed to use the Stance.

I also think this should apply to Paladin DoS, in order to use their Stance.

Does this mean I am right or wrong, it just means I have a different view on those stances. To me they way they are implemented in some builds is more like 'exploiting the PrE', circumventing the design concept behind it's conception.

That is just my opinion.

[Ape_Man]

I don't feed trolls, I slay them.

To me it makes sense that a shield would be needed to use the Stance.

I also think this should apply to Paladin DoS, in order to use their Stance.

Does this mean I am right or wrong, it just means I have a different view on those stances. To me they way they are implemented in some builds is more like 'exploiting the PrE', circumventing the design concept behind it's conception.

That is just my opinion.

And you can't answer the question because you don't actually know what it does.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

It makes sense that the stance would grant benefits for using a shield. It does not make sense that a shield is required for any benefit at all. A shield is not required to fight defensively.

And besides that, it makes the appeal of this tree too narrow.

[Bowser_Koopa]

The paladin tree doesn't have it because paladins are already known as defenders of their faith.

Also no fanboi koopa.

Furthermore Paladins aren't stalwart, they just defend Siberys and they don't claim to be stalwarty.

Really though I've taken everything in the current "Alpha" as not something that is done or near done just some ideas they had that are restrictive and odd and we're going to cry and they'll pull back the curtain and we'll have something that is at least 50% decent and after another 2 years will be 75% decent then they'll rewrite the whole thing again anyways.

Bowserkoopa,

Stalwarts without a shield what's next Barbs that use a sword and shield?

[Ape_Man]

Really though I've taken everything in the current "Alpha" as not something that is done or near done just some ideas they had that are restrictive and odd and we're going to cry and they'll pull back the curtain and we'll have something that is at least 50% decent and after another 2 years will be 75% decent then they'll rewrite the whole thing again anyways.

If this is released live in it's current form without major changes it's game over. Stick a fork in DDO, it's done. Have you seen the Cleric trees?

This is NGE all over again.

[Bowser_Koopa]

If this is released live in it's current form without major changes it's game over. Stick a fork in DDO, it's done. Have you seen the Cleric trees?

This is NGE all over again.

Besides on the forums i haven't looked at much i intend to this weekend, i really haven't been motivated to play DDO with the arrival of Bowser Jr. in the household i try to stay free so i can stop what i'm doing and take care of him. The tree i'm really curious about is going to be rogue just to see if my years of building my acrobat will be meaningful at all to see some possible direction of where that is going, also curious to see barb which hopefully isn't just Frenzy anymore.

Bowserkoopa,

Currently playing Disgaea 2 because he is crazy

[Uska]

If this is released live in it's current form without major changes it's game over. Stick a fork in DDO, it's done. Have you seen the Cleric trees?

This is NGE all over again.

Thats a little dramatic its nowhere near as bad as NGE yet.

[Ape_Man]

Thats a little dramatic its nowhere near as bad as NGE yet.

The Stalwart stuff? No. The cleric stuff? Yes, it is "NGE" bad.

[Uska]

The Stalwart stuff? No. The cleric stuff? Yes, it is "NGE" bad.

Nah to be as bad as NGE they would have to remove all classes but cleric and give us everything automaticly with no choice.

its CU bad but nothing will ever equal NGE(No Good for Everyone) I would have played even CU SWG forever