Proposed Modification to the 3 Class "Panel/Tree" Limitation

[ComicRelief]

Maybe it’s too late; maybe “the ship has sailed”, but since we’re still in the Alpha stage of the new EN system, can we please take another look at the 3 “tree” limitation of the new system and how it prevents flexibility for multi-class toons?

OK, so we all know that the new EN system has a total of 4 “panels”: one racial panel and up to 3 class panels. I say “up to” because not every class has 3 panels or “trees”, as they are being (inaccurately) called. At present, each class panel/tree is a PrE “tree” and the players are limited to having a maximum of 3 class (PrE) “trees”.

Now, I get the idea behind the limitation. First of all, “trees” take up quite a bit of screen real estate (especially compared to the “list” system currently on live), and one would like to be as “compact” as practical. But I do believe there is a better way to implement the 3 class panel limitation and still provide better, comparable class EN variety as we currently have live.

For the sake of discussion, let us assume that all prerequisites, including AP spending requirements (which absolutely suck, BTW) are met.

On live, my pure artificer toon has access to *all* (that’s “all”) level appropriate artificer ENs and my ranger/rogue multi-class toon has access to *all* (again, that’s “all” level appropriate ranger ENs, AS WELL AS *all* level appropriate rogue ENs.

However, under the new system, while my pure artificer retains access to *all* artificer ENs, my ranger/rogue loses access.

Even though there are (currently) only 2 artificer PrEs (Battle Engineer and ArcanoTechnician), my pure artificer toon will never (unless he multi-classes, or a 3rd PrE is added to artificer) have access to the 3rd class panel/PrE tree. But that’s OK because he still has access to *all* currently available ENs (just like how it is now live).

Now, seeing as how my ranger/rogue is a tempest build, naturally I need to select the Tempest PrE panel/tree. But since she is a ranger, she does use her bow from time-to-time, so I’d like to select some of the Arcane Archer ENs, like “Conjure Arrows”, which means I have to select the PrE panel/tree as well (even if I don’t “fully flesh out” the AA line, I still have to take it for even some ‘general’ ENs, because that’s where they are located). And since, as a ranger, she has the Favored Enemy (FE) feat line, I’d want to pick up some of the FE ENs as well, which means I must select the Deepwood Stalker PrE too (because that’s where they are located). Now, since the current Alpha system only grants me 3 PrE “trees”, I loose access to any level appropriate rogue ENs (and I should be able to retain access to all level appropriate rogue ENs).

The Devs have stated that they want to keep flexibility. Great! All for it! I love flexibility. But it’s quite obvious that multi-class builds *will* loose the flexibility they currently have. And that’s not only “not good”, that’s the entire basis for the massive outcry that has been pouring in since a new EN system was first brought up. And there should be a relatively simple solution.

Suppose the 3 class panels are set-up so that a toon can access all “trees” for it’s first class from the first panel, all the trees for it’s (possible) 2nd class from the second panel, and all the trees from it’s (possible) 3rd class from the third panel? This could be done either with a drop-down selection box, as is currently implemented, except that only the first class trees can be selected, or through use of “tabs” at the top of the panel to select the various “trees” that way. This also has the advantage of being able to implement a “general” EN ‘tree’, or even expand to more than 3 PrEs per class (not that I’m saying this should be done, but it *could* be done). None of the class EN ‘trees’ would be ‘locked out’ – you could easily switch from one “tree” to another to find the EN you’re looking for. All of the “trees” would be active – if you selected ENs from the Tempest PrE tree, they would still be selected and active, even though the “general” EN ‘tree’ is the one currently being displayed.

Under this scenario, my pure artificer would still retain access to all the artificer PrE “trees”, a pure ranger would still have access to all 3 ranger PrE “trees”, and my ranger/rogue would retain access to all level appropriate ENs in all 3 ranger PrE “trees” but also retain access to all level appropriate ENs in all the proposed rogue PrE “trees” (as they currently can in live) as well.

This would implement the new, visually better panel/tree system while maintaining the same flexibility we currently have in the list system on live.

I’d call that a “win-win”.

[Deadlock]

Even though there are (currently) only 2 artificer PrEs (Battle Engineer and ArcanoTechnician), my pure artificer toon will never (unless he multi-classes, or a 3rd PrE is added to artificer) have access to the 3rd class panel/PrE tree. But that’s OK because he still has access to *all* currently available ENs (just like how it is now live).

It's not currently implemented for anyone apart from Elf, but each race is supposed to open up an additional tree option.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=578

Each race will have an enhancement that adds another specific enhancement tree to the character’s available list of trees. Elves and Half-Elves, for instance, gain access to the Arcane Archer tree if they take the racial enhancement to unlock it. Dwarves gain access to Stalwart Defender. The player can choose to unlock the tree and then not use it, if they so desire. Trees unlocked in this way use the character’s total character level instead of class level for prerequisites and effects.

Allegedly it was supposed to be:

Each race will have an enhancement that adds another specific enhancement tree to the character’s available list of trees. Elves and Half-Elves, for instance, gain access to the Arcane Archer tree if they take the racial enhancement to unlock it. Dwarves gain access to Stalwart Defender. The player can choose to unlock the tree and then not use it, if they so desire. Trees unlocked in this way use the character’s total character level instead of class level for prerequisites and effects.

Can't see the specific dev post, think it was from MadFloyd, but you can see the details on the wiki http://ddowiki.com/page/In_development

Dwarf: Stalwart Defender
Warforged: Stalwart Defender
Halfling: Assassin
Half-Orc: Ravager
Elf: Arcane Archer
Drow: Tempest
Human: Pick one. (Slightly higher investment in Racial tree required to unlock.)
Half-Elf: Arcane Archer, Human, Elf (Yes, in our current plan they can unlock racial trees from the other races if desired. They might be able to go Half-Elf tree -> Human tree -> Any PrE through gargantuan AP expenditures.)

This was all from early day stuff, but it makes sense to me.

[Failedlegend]

Actually Deadlock THIS vv is what the racial prestiges were supposed to be

Human: Cannith Dragonmark Heir, Deneith Dragonmark Heir, Orien Dragonmark Heir, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir
Dwarf: Kundarak Dragonmark Heir, Dwarven Defender [Counts as Fighter]
Elf: Arcane Archer [Counts as Ranger], Phiarlan Dragonmark Heir
Halfling: Jorasco Dragonmark Heir
Warforged: Warforged Juggernaut [Counts as Barbarian]
Drow: Scorpion Wraith [Counts as Rogue]

Later more racial prestiges were announced but I can't find the dev post

[ComicRelief]

Even though there are (currently) only 2 artificer PrEs (Battle Engineer and ArcanoTechnician), my pure artificer toon will never (unless he multi-classes, or a 3rd PrE is added to artificer) have access to the 3rd class panel/PrE tree. But that’s OK because he still has access to *all* currently available ENs (just like how it is now live).

It's not currently implemented for anyone apart from Elf, but each race is supposed to open up an additional tree option.
*snip*

I think you might be missing the point. The point is that multi-class toons WILL NOT* have the same flexibility of selecting any class-level appropriate EN from any of the classes taken under the current 3 class 'tree' limitation as they do now on live.

But with what should be a relatively "minor" modification (he says knowing full well that in programming, just because something should be easy does not mean that it will be easy), that can be rectified. As far as how to handle the racial PrE options, they could be tabs (or dropdown selected) under the racial panel.


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*Yes, yes - certain combinations will see less of an effect than others. The quintesential example would be a ranger/any-other-class(es) combination, because so many desirable ranger EN are "scattered" across the 3 ranger PrE panels/trees. This will take up all 3 available class 'trees' (under this current Alpha system), with ZERO possibility of using any of the other class ENs. Which is NOT how it is currently on live.