Players = Not Responsible?

[kingfisher]

It looks rushed to me. They basically took the tree system designed for EDs and tried to cram the existing enhancements, for the most part, into it. What used to be tiered, became ranked and placed at whatever tier had space and whatever was left over left out or just arbitrarily placed into trees.

exactly, they are trying to fit the stuff into the graphic instead of making the graphic to fit the stuff. dumb idea. never works.

[cdbd3rd]

So, where an arti gets their signature machine gun at L6 on live, it looks like 8 for the ability on Lama, and in fact they will have to give up other things they could have had at 6-8 on live just to get that ability at 8 in the new system. That just sucks.

....

So I wasn't imagining that.
I had tried several ways to get my EF on a vet-7 Arty, but was tired and figured I was just missing the trick.

/Continues waiting on Alpha to progress to Beta.

[Chai]

exactly, they are trying to fit the stuff into the graphic instead of making the graphic to fit the stuff. dumb idea. never works.

This.

The UI should have been made to fit the enhancements we currently have. What they are doing is creating a completely arbitrary UI, then trying to cram the abilities into it any way that works graphically - and this is leading to overtaxation through prereqs and a tree limitation, making ability combinations we can have now, impossible to get in the alpha.

[chanw4]

It's because 6 is one of the magic numbers for DDO.

6 of Artificer lets you still pick up 12 of another class and 2 of a third. 8 of Artificer eliminates the possibility of a third class for anyone who is going to go for one of the significant core abilities.

I love the idea of having to sacrifice to make different build choices. I think that the sacrifice should be able to get you something meaningful and significant in return. Right now, it looks like multiclassing will not take as much away (because you can still buy most of the good stuff in your "main" tree), but it doesn't offer nearly as much in return because of the need to spend so much AP in the "main" tree to get to the point where you can do something useful with that tree.

erm, you only need Arti level 4 to pick up endless, you need Character level 8 to pick it up, huge difference. at Arti level 6, you can also pickup infuse armor.

compare to old system, you lose 1 weapon enhancement (second weapon enhancement at level 12) but gain 1 armour enhancement and 5PRR (gain in addition to -10 ASF, another - ASF at level 18). Get your fact right before complaining. This is why people are so angry at those who hate the system before even trying it out or at least, try to understand the system and work with it.

[chanw4]

So I wasn't imagining that.
I had tried several ways to get my EF on a vet-7 Arty, but was tired and figured I was just missing the trick.

/Continues waiting on Alpha to progress to Beta.

You need to spend 20 points in the tree in order to access the ability and spend more points to get EF. which is roughly about level 8. But those 8 level does not need to be an Arti. You only need 4 level of Arti to access tier 4 Arti PrE.