25% Dodge cap

[dredre9987]

Say I see this on lammania, but I did not test it myself, but what does the + to dodge cap mean in the enhancements. Is there still a hard at 25 and this just gets a character closer to it or can it now go above 25? I am guessing there is still a hard cap at 25 just could not test it myself.

From a guildmate testing it is allowing you to bypass the cap.

[Archangel666]

Short term dodge is easy to get to 100% on live.
Be a shadowdancer, use the 100% dodge ability.

If you don't have any damage mitigation when you're not in earth stance, maybe you need to look at getting PRR on your gear, try slotting a 14 PRR crystal in your dragonscale dress.

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 300 damage?

*Edit* Or, tell you what, let's reduce that to 100 Damage.

I can't see anyone honestly trying to claim that EE mobs don't hit for that much.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 100 damage?

[dredre9987]

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 300 damage?

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 100% dodge mitigate when being hit for 300?

[maddmatt70]

From a guildmate testing it is allowing you to bypass the cap.

Ahh very cool I thought that this would happen. This should make for some interesting tank builds. This means that maybe somebody can tank difficult boss's eventually if they have medicore prr.

[Gkar]

Hey, hey were the monk trees and we keep monk treeing around!

/groan

I don't know if I should pos rep or neg rep you for that.

Ah, what the heck +1

[Archangel666]

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 100% dodge mitigate when being hit for 300?

How long can you sustain that 100% Dodge?

If it's x uses per day you'll quickly run out after the first few encounters.

If it's on a Cooldown with infinite uses then you're moving at a snails pace waiting on it to come off cooldown.

[CheeseMilk]

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 300 damage?

*Edit* Or, tell you what, let's reduce that to 100 Damage.

I can't see anyone honestly trying to claim that EE mobs don't hit for that much.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 100 damage?

9.1%.

It's better than nothing.

[dredre9987]

How long can you sustain that 100% Dodge?

If it's x uses per day you'll quickly run out after the first few encounters.

If it's on a Cooldown with infinite uses then you're moving at a snails pace waiting on it to come off cooldown.

You telling me someone isn't going to just throw down cash and grab shrines from the store? You know it will happen.

I will find out today what the exact details on it are for you.

[Archangel666]

9.1%.

It's better than nothing.

True. 9.1% better than nothing. lol

So, mob hits for 100 Damage, 9.1% is mitigated, Player takes 93.9 Damage.

Mob hits for 300 Damage, 9.1% is mitigated, Player takes 272.7 Damage.

And Turbine feels this is balanced?

[gphysalis]

Tell me something please.

How much damage does 14 PRR mitigate when being hit for 300 damage?

How long can you sustain that 100% Dodge?

14 PRR mitigates ~9% damage
Shadowdancer gets 100% dodge for 15 seconds every 2 min ~ 12.5% damage mitigation.

Back to PRR,
14 PRR (blue slot)
15 PRR (Planar focus of prowess set bonus)
6 PRR (Twist from Fury of the wild)
=35 PRR, which mitigates 19% of damage (58 out of 300 damage)

If you're not being attacked by a marilith, this is significant damage mitigation.

[Archangel666]

14 PRR mitigates ~9% damage
Shadowdancer gets 100% dodge for 15 seconds every 2 min ~ 12.5% damage mitigation.

Back to PRR,
14 PRR (blue slot)
15 PRR (Planar focus of prowess set bonus)
6 PRR (Twist from Fury of the wild)
=35 PRR, which mitigates 19% of damage (58 out of 300 damage)

If you're not being attacked by a marilith, this is significant damage mitigation.

Thanks for that. I will admit to not having the CITW Wraps yet (Though amusingly my Monk does have the Favour needed to upgrade them), so I'll have to look into that. I also missed the Blue Slot, so I'll look into that one too. (Now to see if I have any Blue Slots on anything that I can free up, kinda doubt it, but you never know).

The thing is, and this is mot meant as an attack on you, and hopefully it's not taken as such, but I'm not so sure I'd agree that 19% is significant damage mitigation.

On Epic Hard or Epic Normal it would reduce damage substantially, but who needs PRR for those?

On Epic Elite the mobs hit so bloody hard that 19% of *Insert obscenely high damage number here* is...

I just can't agree that it's significant. It's better than nothing, certainly, but that's about all I can agree with.

*Edit* Gave you a +1 for the info, even if I disagree with your conclusion.

[gphysalis]

The thing is, and this is mot meant as an attack on you, and hopefully it's not taken as such, but I'm not so sure I'd agree that 19% is significant damage mitigation.

I would agree that it is not enough mitigation, and other sources should be avaliable.

However, I would argue that it is significant.
(I define significant as being able to survive one more hit)
Imagine a mob hitting you 3 times
3 * 300 = 900. On my character with ~770 hp, this would leave me dead.
3 * 240 = 720. This would leave me alive, and able to run away.

If you hp is between 720 and 900, then 35 PRR would mean the difference between surviving two hits and surviving three hits.

Monks have the problem of damage mitigation
Casters have the problem of DCs (this is less applicable to monks because of ways to boost stun dc)
Other melees have the problem of mob HP inflation (again, matters less to monks because of stunning + sense weakness)

Basically, the CR scaling of EE mobs leads to a poorly balanced game.

[Archangel666]

I would agree that it is not enough mitigation, and other sources should be avaliable.

However, I would argue that it is significant.
(I define significant as being able to survive one more hit)
Imagine a mob hitting you 3 times
3 * 300 = 900. On my character with ~770 hp, this would leave me dead.
3 * 240 = 720. This would leave me alive, and able to run away.

If you hp is between 720 and 900, then 35 PRR would mean the difference between surviving two hits and surviving three hits.

Monks have the problem of damage mitigation
Casters have the problem of DCs (this is less applicable to monks because of ways to boost stun dc)
Other melees have the problem of mob HP inflation (again, matters less to monks because of stunning + sense weakness)

Basically, the CR scaling of EE mobs leads to a poorly balanced game.

Fair enough, I can't fault your reasoning.

For me though significant damage mitigation should mean going from 2 hits from a mob kills you to 10 hits from a mob kills you.

Rather than 2 hits from a mob kills you to 3 hits from a mob kills you.

If that makes any sense at all.

Oh and I obviously agree about the CR of mobs being stupidly high.

I ran EE Druid's Deep the other night (Guildie wanted some EE Wraps, she didn't spawn, naturally) and I noticed that the Wood Woads are CR 54.

Are you serious Turbine?

CR 54?

What exactly was the point in adding "Defence Chance At Level" to the Character Sheet when we're fighting mobs over twice our level?

[Thrudh]

25% incorporeal + 25% Dodge + 50% displacement clickable offers pretty good protection. Plus, just normal AC probably gives the EE mobs 5%-10% misses.

I thought EE was already too easy? Why do we need to raise the dodge cap?

[gphysalis]

Are you serious Turbine?

CR 54?

What exactly was the point in adding "Defence Chance At Level" to the Character Sheet when we're fighting mobs over twice our level?

They're trolling you

[Ape_Man]

25% incorporeal + 25% Dodge + 50% displacement clickable offers pretty good protection.

I thought EE was already too easy? Why do we need to raise the dodge cap?

There simply should be no limits, period. The limits should not exist.

When we first saw CiTW beta there was no cap on dodge besides the MDB. The cap got put in place in beta when somebody (Lelo I think?) came up with a build that could sustain like a 43% full time dodge. it was a ranger/rogue/something splash that in reality would have been TERRIBLY WORTHLESS but heck it'd be hard to hit.

If people want this freedom to gimp themselves they should be allowed. personally I wouldn't bother as I find the PRR mitigation to be more reliable but why should anyone else have this illogical limit?

At the same time there should be no insane 100% perma-dodge toons. If an ability allows that (which quite frankly I don't believe) it shouldn't be possible. But if somebody wants to gimp themselves with 3 twists and a dodge-based ED more power to them.

[Ape_Man]

They're trolling you

yeah, the "defense per level" thing was possibly the dumbest thing added to the game.

[Archangel666]

25% incorporeal + 25% Dodge + 50% displacement clickable offers pretty good protection. Plus, just normal AC probably gives the EE mobs 5%-10% misses.

I thought EE was already too easy? Why do we need to raise the dodge cap?

25% incorporeal

Tell me how you get this on a Light Monk please. I have 10% from the eRing of the Stalker.

25% Dodge

Check. Not enough.

50% displacement clickable

Got one already, they don't last all that long. 1:30 seconds per charge and 2 charges each, so carry 20 of them?
And I might point out that anyone can use these, so erm...yeah. Pally with 50% mitigation from PRR can use a Displacement Clickie too.

Perma-Blur

Check, though again, anyone can use this including the above example of the Pally.


Oh and please don't try to strawman me with somthing pointless like "You want the damage mitigation of a Plate Wearer with the DPS of a Monk" Because that's just dumb and nobody is claiming that.

What I want is something equivalent. For Monks that's Dodge. Even with high Dodge chance a Monk is still going to get hit occasionally and with no or almost no Damage Mitigation inherent to the Class this means that mobs hit HARD.

An increase of the Dodge Cap for Monks wouldn't help when getting hit but would help get hit less.

[Ape_Man]

What we want is something equivalent . . .

Don't be so fast with this "we" stuff. What I'd want is to scrap all this garbage and just go back to Armor Class.

I mean seriously, this is a half-baked stupid system. DEX bonus to AC in D&D terms clearly represents you ability to "dodge" out of the way. Yet in DDO's inane defense system it's still Armor class.

[Archangel666]

Don't be so fast with this "we" stuff.

Agreed and edited.