Leveling a cleric - a comparison of levels 7, 12, and 17

[Pape_27]

-2 spell pen
-5 hp
-can't aura till 18
- -1 to hit and damage if you take 2 pts out of str to get heal skill
- heal skill giving more spell power than we currently have on live

this is restrictive?

I can understand the -2 spell pen being kinda crappy for those that like to cast offensive cc or instakill spells but really the rest is minor and will basically be not noticeable in game. If you are building a cleric where the -1 hit and damage matters, u can probably free up the 2 pts needed for int from another stat anyways.

IMO every cleric benefits from increased positive spellpower, "healbot" or not

Sure it could be less restrictive, sure we could have gotten offensive prestige(s), but what i'm getting at is it's barely different from live aside from the spell pen.



I have more than one, 18 cleric (retired) 18/2rog, 9clr/4ftr, 20 cleric (deleted), i really couldn't be bothered to list you the specific build for each one since i only have one in the ddo planner thing and have no clue how to export it. The name of my toon is pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The overall cost of getting to the "same" is what's restrictive, along with having to allocate build points into stats that are meaningless on live right now. In addition in order to get the capstone you have to qualify for it by points spent instead of just achieving 20 in a single class.

In order achieve each goal one must put points into specific trees in order to unlock the higher tier functions. If you reread the op then you will see the number of useless requirements is twofold because you are now dealing with two trees instead on one enhancement page.

This in effect restricts the flexibility of builds.

as for the toons I wanted to see how you had them set up in order to make you take a look at their stat and point allocation.

"I use my aura effectively in EE content all the time"

and followed up by

"I have more than one, 18 cleric (retired) 18/2rog, 9clr/4ftr, 20 cleric (deleted)"

But since you don't have a cleric (or a fvs apparently) let alnone one set for EE, and yet talk about healing EE content, well I'm not sure what to make of that or your commentary in the thread...

[fink2008]

But since you don't have a cleric (or a fvs apparently) let alnone one set for EE, and yet talk about healing EE content, well I'm not sure what to make of that or your commentary in the thread...

I guess I"ll clarify for you
18 cleric / 2 rogue / 5 epic levels

I"m assuming this is where the confusion was.

If you reread the op then you will see the number of useless requirements is twofold because you are now dealing with two trees instead on one enhancement page.

I actually did this. The AP spent on live vs. lamma is the exact same on the enhancements he is breaking down. For the same AP spent you:
Lose:
-2 spell pen
-5 hp
-can't aura till 18
- -1 to hit and damage if you take 2 pts out of str to get heal skill

Gain:
- heal skill giving more spell power than we currently have on live

All I am saying is this isn't very restrictive to me nor game breaking. Those that want this spell pen back (which is probably the biggest issue) shoudl bug report it/submit feedback.

[RavenStormclaw]

Pape.. Just going to say one thing. Yea you have to pay for the capstone with AP invested but look you don't have to be pure to get it. So exactly how is that restrictive? They basically are encouraging you to multi- class by not requiring a pure build to get the capstones any more.

[chanw4]

Pape.. Just going to say one thing. Yea you have to pay for the capstone with AP invested but look you don't have to be pure to get it. So exactly how is that restrictive? They basically are encouraging you to multi- class by not requiring a pure build to get the capstones any more.

You still need lv 20 to get the capstone, the tier 5 enhancement is not the capstone but the lv 20 required core enhancement.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

Gain:
- heal skill giving more spell power than we currently have on live

That's not a gain. That's having to spend +2 build points on int at creation in order to have approximately the same positive spell power we currently have on live. Plus a further +2 int to keep the rest of your spell power categories roughly equal. I.e., it's a net loss because that extra int does not come for free.

[eonfreon]

Pape.. Just going to say one thing. Yea you have to pay for the capstone with AP invested but look you don't have to be pure to get it. So exactly how is that restrictive? They basically are encouraging you to multi- class by not requiring a pure build to get the capstones any more.

This is the second time I've seen you say this. But you're wrong. Capstones still require 20 levels. They are on the bottom. They are "Core Abilities" not Tier 5 Abilities.

[Pape_27]

Pape.. Just going to say one thing. Yea you have to pay for the capstone with AP invested but look you don't have to be pure to get it. So exactly how is that restrictive? They basically are encouraging you to multi- class by not requiring a pure build to get the capstones any more.

capstones always require 20 levels in the same class. The new enhancement tree is not any different in that regard, as it has already been said.

Raven they are not encouraging you to multiclass. Its quite the opposite in fact, least with a divine. Specifically in the cleric's case the second tree, protection, which is so frakkin awful, that the new NGEnhancement pass basically forcing you to spend the majority of your points in a single tree.

In addition, its requiring that you allocate build points to basically a worthless stat for clerics, intelligence. Now that spell power is boosted via the skills (a decision that makes absolutely no sense at all) you cannot get away with dumping intelligence. You absolutely need the skill points now.

How is that not more restrictive?

[Pape_27]

I actually did this. The AP spent on live vs. lamma is the exact same on the enhancements he is breaking down. For the same AP spent you:
Lose:
-2 spell pen
-5 hp
-can't aura till 18
- -1 to hit and damage if you take 2 pts out of str to get heal skill

Gain:
- heal skill giving more spell power than we currently have on live

All I am saying is this isn't very restrictive to me nor game breaking. Those that want this spell pen back (which is probably the biggest issue) shoudl bug report it/submit feedback.

On live you can tailor your build with enhancements as you see fit. The point spent requirements carry across all boundaries. Class, Racial etc. Not so in the NGEnhancement pass. Each ability has to be unlocked at the cost of purchasing un-needed pre-req's. It is tree based. So whats sent in one tree be it racial or class doesn't count towards the other. That pyramid quickly closes out options due to the number of points that need to be spent to get mid and top tier abilities. Now add a multiclass into the mix? <shudders>

The new system guarantees that you follow a proscribed path in order to get what's wanted. And that path fills your build with a bunch of garbage. Instead of being intuitive and flexible, the new NGE tree is more rigid than the god awful system that's currently in place.

The tree works well in epic destinies because of the additional power the destinies grant. On a heroic level it doesn't work well at all.

If the same holds true for the other class builds, it is indeed a game breaker. It will Kill a variety of builds. If this goes thru as is, and I have no doubt that what we are seeing now will resemble closely what gets dumped on live, it will be a mess. Sn oo tch wins, the rest of us lose.