Is history set to repeat?

[Charononus]

http://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=node/109

tell me I'm crazy and there aren't tons of similarities happening.

[Kilbar]

http://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=node/109

tell me I'm crazy and there aren't tons of similarities happening.

I already mentioned this in another thread and directly warned SqueakOfDoom to google it and see what could happen if this goes live.

Originally, SWG had DDO outright BEATEN hands down for versatility in custom builds. Then the NGE came down and you were pigeon holed into nine Iconic Classes (Sound familiar? It's what SWG called 'em too) that had nice and pretty skill trees.

[Charononus]

I already mentioned this in another thread and directly warned SqueakOfDoom to google it and see what could happen if this goes live.

I must have missed that.

[Ape_Man]

This is more like the diet-coke of NGE but it's still worse than what's already in place.

[Kilbar]

This is more like the diet-coke of NGE but it's still worse than what's already in place.

I'll admit, the way Sony dropped the NGE on players with no warning a mere two weeks after a major expansion had come out makes the actual impact far more shocking, but given Turbine's history of putting things in Lama-land for "testing" and then going live with it despite all feedback given, we could just be watching a train wreck in slow motion instead of full speed.

[Ape_Man]

I'll admit, the way Sony dropped the NGE on players with no warning a mere two weeks after a major expansion had come out makes the actual impact far more shocking, but given Turbine's history of putting things in Lama-land for "testing" and then going live with it despite all feedback given, we could just be watching a train wreck in slow motion instead of full speed.

The ONLY thing that makes this not an NGE moment is it still can be changed.

[Ganolyn]

The ONLY thing that makes this not an NGE moment is it still can be changed.

That makes it the New Coke of NGE, not the Diet Coke.

[Ape_Man]

That makes it the New Coke of NGE, not the Diet Coke.

/win

[rimble]

Definitely has been my big concern since this even started being discussed, and it's not off to a great start. I've actually pretty much withdrawn from the game for the past month or two, expecting an NGE-like event.

Scrap the pretty pictures/diagrams, the simplification imposes too many restrictions. Just work on/fix up the existing enhancements and surrounding system, that's all anyone wanted.

[Charononus]

To me the scariest part of the article and these current changes are this

LucasArts reputedly pressed SOE into a another round of deeper changes directed towards making the "meat" of the game even more accessible to the casual gamer, and the New Game Enhancements (or "NGE") bounded onto the scene in explosive fashion.

[Kilbar]

To me the scariest part of the article and these current changes are this

You noticed that too, huh? Yeah, folks who'd worked for literally MONTHS to unlock Jedi suddenly saw Jedi made into a starting profession. Think about that for a moment... There's literally nothing comparable in the game except maybe some of the highest tier favor unlocks. And even then, it's nowhere near as awesome to unlock Vet II or whatever as JEDI! Others who'd spent the entire lifetime of the game thus far playing Beastmasters, a pet class that could have a retinue of everything from Womp Rats to Rancors at his command suddenly discovered that their class (along with 22 others) no longer EXISTED!!!

[Kilbar]

On further reflection, since this is a New Enhancement pass that will affect the entire Game, I move that it henceforth be referred to as the NGE. If they're gonna resurrect a lousy idea, may as well make sure that they're aware WE know its lousy too.

[Memnir]

A better question would be if Turbine has learned from history.
If not...

[gphysalis]

A better question would be if Turbine has learned from history.
If not...

Average man learns from his mistakes

Foolish man does not learn from his mistakes

Wise man learns from other's mistakes

[Archangel666]

Average man learns from his mistakes

Foolish man does not learn from his mistakes

Wise man learns from other's mistakes

That's Sig worthy. Any objections?

[gphysalis]

That's Sig worthy. Any objections?

no objections at all

[Captain_Wizbang]

A better question would be if Turbine has learned from history.
If not...

Yup

[MRMechMan]

The combat system and the build customization options are basically the only things that seperates DDO from the rest of the pile.

The enhancement pass kills off a LOT of build options.

I'll keep an eye on how things develop, as it's early, but I think they are going in the wrong direction with this in a lot of ways.

[HAL]

Since DDO is older, has sub-par graphics, klugey programming and a huge host of bugs, what distinguishes it from Neverwinter? A truly in-depth, complex character creation system. Nerf that system and what keeps the players from running to Neverwinter? Nothing.

I don't want DDO to lose to Neverwinter. I like the character creation system. I hope that in an effort to appeal to the "masses" DDO doesn't nerf themselves out of existence.

[FestusHood]

Since DDO is older, has sub-par graphics, klugey programming and a huge host of bugs, what distinguishes it from Neverwinter? A truly in-depth, complex character creation system. Nerf that system and what keeps the players from running to Neverwinter? Nothing.

I don't want DDO to lose to Neverwinter. I like the character creation system. I hope that in an effort to appeal to the "masses" DDO doesn't nerf themselves out of existence.

Is the current system complex? Maybe, but not because the end result is necessarily a large variety in buiild types.

To my mind, the current enhancements can be divided into 2 types.

A. Enhancements that are really good, and everyone should always take.

B. Enhancements that are really bad, and nobody should ever take.

The build diversity that exists in DDO right now, on live, has very little to do with the enhancement system. All you have to do is look at the critiques on these forums to see that there is a very strict consensus on what enhancements are worth taking, and which ones aren't. For that matter the same thing can be said about feats.

What's the difference between an arcane archer and a tempest? One has 20& off hand, and the other has slayer arrows. Other than that, i assure you , all rangers are built 95% the same, and if not, they are immediately labeled as gimps.

In the new system, a tempest ranger and an arcane archer look like pretty different animals. This is due to the core abilities, which currently make up almost all of the enhancements, being placed into one tree or another. I don't think the problem is that it is limiting diversity. It's that it is forcing diversity. Now whether that's good or not is a different argument.

Apparently, all endgame martial builds are using manyshot these days. Some would say that because all of these various builds can incorporate manyshot, it's a sign of diversity. I say, if all of the characters have manyshot, that is the very opposite of diversity.

Same could be said of umd. It's said that all good endgame builds should have this abilty. Never mind how patently ridiculous it is to have a barbarian, who should be the very antithesis of magic, using high level wands and scrolls.

I'm not saying that the new system doesn't need some tweaking. It certainly does. I hate to see devotion enhancements gone from rangers and paladins, with no real ability to get that back. Unless, maybe, we will see a new wave of ranger/cleric splashes? A different beast than has prowled these grounds before?

When you see someone with a splash of 4 fighter, you really won't know immediately what that person actually took from those fighter levels. Not like now, when you see someone with a 2 fighter splash and you know that they have strength 1, toughness 1, and haste 1.