Stalwart Stance requiring S&B is not acceptable

[Ape_Man]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

[Kilbar]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

The Dev says Know Your Role and Shut Your Mouth!

[Ape_Man]

The Dev says Know Your Role and Shut Your Mouth!

Hjeal meh!

Bjuff meh!

I'll pike behind this shield and be worthless. Got it.

[Cheezburgerz]

Meh. The shield thing makes sense to me, not the sword thing so much.

[Kilbar]

Could've been worse. They could've forced SDs to actually only use swords.

[Ape_Man]

Could've been worse. They could've forced SDs to actually only use swords.

Turbine generally reads "could be worse" as actionable feedback.

[Darkrok]

Guess I better hurry up and finish my SD/Ninja Spy lives as quickly as possible.

[voodoogroves]

Turbine generally reads "could be worse" as actionable feedback.

According Maj, we are to bug report this kind of mess.

Lets get on it.

[Taojeff]

I disagree. It should have a shield requirement. if they take it away I will report it as a bug. There are other tanking options that have not yet been revealed.

[Taojeff]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

I think all the defensive options should be removed without a shield but they should change the hitpoints to be non-stance related. Definitely leave them at the top of the tier though 40 point investment. Splashing for extra hp is seriously op.

[Ape_Man]

I disagree. It should have a shield requirement. if they take it away I will report it as a bug. There are other tanking options that have not yet been revealed.

Why?

And you understand that if you use a throw, a scroll, a clickie from a weapon, etc . . . you lose that activation and there's a 1 minute cooldown before you can go back into stance.

And what other tanking options?

There are many reason to use a shield in DDO when actually TANKING - the U14 nerfs ensured that. But you should be forced into this cookie cutter when beating down trash and lose your ability to scroll-heal yourself.

[Ape_Man]

I think all the defensive options should be removed without a shield but they should change the hitpoints to be non-stance related. Definitely leave them at the top of the tier though 40 point investment. Splashing for extra hp is seriously op.

The AC and PRR is massively better when a shield is a equipped and that makes sense.

Not being able to scroll heal/buff yourself does not.

Splashing for HP is foolish and a noob-trap. if people want to gimp themselves doing that let them.

[Wipey]

Lmao !
So I know my main who is in tr process, was supposed to be caster divine is never gonna work, necro palemaster neither.
My bard ? Who the heck play bards ?
12/6/2 monkcher, I read " bad news ".
My only melee, twf stalwart is gonna get ****ed too ! 42+ umd on her, casting various scrolls all the time. This might be the best day of my life, thanks Ape_man.
Someone, wake me up.

[maddmatt70]

Actually when I read the stalwart there are some aspects of it that do not necessarily require a shield like some of the physical resistance. With the buffs to Tempest from a defensive standpoint I was thinking some sort of two weapon fighting Drow Paladin or Fighter or Dwarven Tempest tank might be possible again. It gave me some reason for optimism.

[Ape_Man]

. . .thanks Ape_man.

The d000m has been spread, my day here is done.

[Ape_Man]

It gave me some reason for optimism.

The d000m is spreading, I feel myself getting stronger.

[Taojeff]

i would agree to adding some PRR to the defense and shield mastery line then leaving some in the stalwart line. There should be options for everything out of the line (including hitpoints) and then have basically more options in the stalwart line. That way you can get both and just be buffed much more with a shield.

The whole scroll, range etc thing should not effect stalwart I agree. Though to be sure you should loose some defense when scrolling, whether it breaks some forms of tanking or not, while u are scroll healing u SHOULD be more vunerable, same with weapon throwing.

But...it should auto put you back in stance afterwards. Definitely divorce the hitpoints from the stance but keep them at the top tier.

To sum it.

• Add PRR to Mastery lines
• Do not tie added hitpoints to stalwart defense line
• Enter the stance automatically when you equip a shield

[Bolo_Grubb]

I hate change!



Get OFF my Lawn!!!

[Kilbar]

I hate change!



Get OFF my Lawn!!!

There's a vast gulf of difference between change that is merely superficial and change that instantly invalidates years of hard work and effort. And since that quote from Gran Turismo is so popular these days, I would remind you that Clint's character said it to Korean kids who represented an ethnicity he and his pals once fought (and some died) at the command of others for. They were change of the "invalidating hard work and effort" sort, at least to him.

[Zuka]

I think that a shield should be required to be in defensive stance, that said i think a shield should be the only requirement for being in defensive stance, I don't think it should matter at all if you have a shield and scroll, shield and thrower, shield and wand, shield and repeater, none of it matters to me, what I think is important is the shield.

Too many people take SD as it is for the added HP and essentially auto-constant rage (+6 str/con anyone?) for their dual wielders (maybe tanks but not stalwart defenders) and for their two handed fighters (again, can tank, not stalwart defenders.)

It's important to remember that those stat buffs are there to make up for the loss of damage output when equipping a shield, at least, that's how I see them. If you want a crazy high HP crazy high DPS fighter then you shoudl take a bunch of toughness and go kensai.

Another important thing that I think has to be said is that everyone seems to be looking at these enhancements as something you HAVE to min/max But they're absolutely not, think of it this way, you have every option of building a dwarven axe kensai who has decently buffed hp (from dwarven pre) and then has just the most ridiculous damage bonuses, from kensai and dwarven PRE's combined, and if you level dwarf up you don't even have to have ANY strength, you can stick with the base 8 and just crank up your con.

Too many people are thinking in the same way they have for years, this is a big change, and requires a new approach, but it doesn't weaken anything, in my opinion, if you're creative and adaptable it actually strengthens quite a few builds so far.