Stalwart Stance requiring S&B is not acceptable

[Ape_Man]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

[Kilbar]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

The Dev says Know Your Role and Shut Your Mouth!

[Ape_Man]

The Dev says Know Your Role and Shut Your Mouth!

Hjeal meh!

Bjuff meh!

I'll pike behind this shield and be worthless. Got it.

[Cheezburgerz]

Meh. The shield thing makes sense to me, not the sword thing so much.

[Draiden]

Meh. The shield thing makes sense to me, not the sword thing so much.

No. A shield should be a requirement to MAXIMIZE the defensive abilities, as is the case... but having one presently equiped should not be a requirement for the ENTIRETY of the PrE benefits.

Would a "Stalwart Defender", a master of defensive combat strategies, only be effective in minimizing damage so long as he/she is holding a shield and sword? Or do you think it's feasible that other elements of combat could attribute to their overall defensive strategy? Sure, to completely turtle up and maximize their defensive abilities, it makes sense that they would invest fully in shield proficiencies and such. However, to completely pigeon-hole the entire PrE to a very cookie-cutter kind of build... that's not DDO. That's WoW.

[eonfreon]

No. A shield should be a requirement to MAXIMIZE the defensive abilities, as is the case... but having one presently equiped should not be a requirement for the ENTIRETY of the PrE benefits.

Would a "Stalwart Defender", a master of defensive combat strategies, only be effective in minimizing damage so long as he/she is holding a shield and sword? Or do you think it's feasible that other elements of combat could attribute to their overall defensive strategy? Sure, to completely turtle up and maximize their defensive abilities, it makes sense that they would invest fully in shield proficiencies and such. However, to completely pigeon-hole the entire PrE to a very cookie-cutter kind of build... that's not DDO. That's WoW.

Unfortunately, logic has very little to do with any of this. The Devs' intentions are clear. Because Kensei and Monks can now access SD enhancements, they don't want there to be passive bonuses to the stance. Otherwise everyone would be dual wielding and using two handed weapons and Monk stances and be enjoying the majority of the Defender's bonuses(like they do now on Live). So they've come up with this clunky way of curtailing that. A Defender can grab some decent amount of dps stuff from Kensei, but he'll have to drop his shield to get any real benefit (TWF or THF) or he can hope his Intimidate and hate generation is enough to keep aggro while he whittles down his opponent. Really, the Defender line is pretty much dead if it goes out like that. People will still grab enhancements from it, after all those enhancements were "general" once, including Intimidate. There's also some decent AC passive bonuses to Armor. Which is good, because people are going to want to find something, anything to spend points on in the Dfender tree, because that's how you get "Toughness" nowadays, lol.

What's just completely baffling is the fact that the stance also breaks if you switch to anything besides another one-handed weapon. I absolutely don't get the thinking behind that penalty. ANd the ridiculous cooldown? Only thing I can figure is that the Devs are making it so ridiculously bad at this point so that we'll actually be happy when they get rid of those penalties and then it's "just" about the shield. We'll be so glad to see the ridiculous cooldown and everything under the sun breaking the stance, that we'll actually commend the Devs for listening to us, lol.

Want to know what's really funny? You can't get the Shield Defensive Stance until level 6, but you can get upgrades to it at levels 1 to 5. LOL.

Well-thought out, indeed. By that point every new player will have invested in Kensei, where they'll get abilities they can actually use from first level on. By the time they start getting to putting points into Defender and getting something useful out of it, they'll be mostly Kensei and of that mindset. It'll be interesting to see how many players really get into a "shield-style" combat after wielding Two Handed Weapons.

I've never played WOW, but I have played Aion. This reminds me alot of Aion. Except Aion was built from the ground up like this.

[Taojeff]

No. A shield should be a requirement to MAXIMIZE the defensive abilities, as is the case... but having one presently equiped should not be a requirement for the ENTIRETY of the PrE benefits.

Would a "Stalwart Defender", a master of defensive combat strategies, only be effective in minimizing damage so long as he/she is holding a shield and sword? Or do you think it's feasible that other elements of combat could attribute to their overall defensive strategy? Sure, to completely turtle up and maximize their defensive abilities, it makes sense that they would invest fully in shield proficiencies and such. However, to completely pigeon-hole the entire PrE to a very cookie-cutter kind of build... that's not DDO. That's WoW.

Totally agree. Basically 50% of the line should be give if you switch to thf or a scroll or something. Its not like you would forget everything about tanking. Also the hitpoints should be seperated from the stance at the top tier. It is silly to loose 400 hitpoints just because you switched weapons.

[bhgiant]

No. A shield should be a requirement to MAXIMIZE the defensive abilities, as is the case... but having one presently equiped should not be a requirement for the ENTIRETY of the PrE benefits.

Agreed. Bug it!

[Kilbar]

Could've been worse. They could've forced SDs to actually only use swords.

[Ape_Man]

Could've been worse. They could've forced SDs to actually only use swords.

Turbine generally reads "could be worse" as actionable feedback.

[voodoogroves]

Turbine generally reads "could be worse" as actionable feedback.

According Maj, we are to bug report this kind of mess.

Lets get on it.

[Darkrok]

Guess I better hurry up and finish my SD/Ninja Spy lives as quickly as possible.

[Taojeff]

I disagree. It should have a shield requirement. if they take it away I will report it as a bug. There are other tanking options that have not yet been revealed.

[Ape_Man]

I disagree. It should have a shield requirement. if they take it away I will report it as a bug. There are other tanking options that have not yet been revealed.

Why?

And you understand that if you use a throw, a scroll, a clickie from a weapon, etc . . . you lose that activation and there's a 1 minute cooldown before you can go back into stance.

And what other tanking options?

There are many reason to use a shield in DDO when actually TANKING - the U14 nerfs ensured that. But you should be forced into this cookie cutter when beating down trash and lose your ability to scroll-heal yourself.

[Taojeff]

This has been brought up in other threads but it deserves it's own.

This change absolutely needs to go. No longer can you take out a thrower, UMD a scroll, switch to TWFing or THFing if the situation doesn't call for a shield.

I'm sorry, this change making it to live is a major nerf and forces even more cookie-cutter garbage down our throats.

I think all the defensive options should be removed without a shield but they should change the hitpoints to be non-stance related. Definitely leave them at the top of the tier though 40 point investment. Splashing for extra hp is seriously op.

[Ape_Man]

I think all the defensive options should be removed without a shield but they should change the hitpoints to be non-stance related. Definitely leave them at the top of the tier though 40 point investment. Splashing for extra hp is seriously op.

The AC and PRR is massively better when a shield is a equipped and that makes sense.

Not being able to scroll heal/buff yourself does not.

Splashing for HP is foolish and a noob-trap. if people want to gimp themselves doing that let them.

[Wipey]

Lmao !
So I know my main who is in tr process, was supposed to be caster divine is never gonna work, necro palemaster neither.
My bard ? Who the heck play bards ?
12/6/2 monkcher, I read " bad news ".
My only melee, twf stalwart is gonna get ****ed too ! 42+ umd on her, casting various scrolls all the time. This might be the best day of my life, thanks Ape_man.
Someone, wake me up.

[Ape_Man]

. . .thanks Ape_man.

The d000m has been spread, my day here is done.