Stalwart Stance requiring S&B is not acceptable

[maddmatt70]

We will see next week when the pally, monk, etc. gets released because according to the devs the preview will be slightly different then what people have seen for monk or pally on lammania thus far. The fighter defender does appear to be mostly for shield, but then again dwarves can get that so perhaps this is some sort of balancing on dwarves. Doubt it, but until they release the previews which say shield bearer only for the paladin class as well then keeping open mind. Currenly have a drow lt armor shield bearing tank 18 paladin 2 monk which I would not mind switching back to two weapon fighting so keeping an open mind.

[Chai]

I do not think everyone is comparing to what we have on live or what would be balanced, rather to what their wishlist is for the new system.

Nope. Most of my posts are literal comparisons between what we can do now -vs- how we cant do the same thing if this alpha was live due to overtaxation on prereqs and arbitrary 3 tree limitations.

[Bilger]

it certainly sucks for a lot of people for sure

but i'm fine with it, stalwart is no longer the end-all-be-all PrE for fighter
currently on live pretty much no one goes for kensei when they can go stalwart for the +6 str and con as opposed to +8 str burst that doesn't last that long and has a limited use per rest.

Kensai gets extra crit range a + to damage at tiers and bonuses to weapons. Which is equal to that +6 strength and more. The surge is huge and can easily if built right keep going 90% of time between shrines while in combat. (I have a kensai and SD)

The big difference comes from the survivabilty from stance the hp, ac, and con are what made this more useful for certain builds. (survivability) Kensai are a ton more dps if built right.

The proposed change will kill a lot of twf tanks.

Yes some people still play tanks and are great at it. I have two tanks myself. One is twf SD 12/6/2 fighter/pali/monk other is S&B Pali. This will kill my SD who spent 6+ years through all the changes made so far.

Now if they make sheild wands work with it or have the white scale or make items with shield bonus work with it. Add that bonus to other hard to acquire items. So that it counts with pre then I would be fine with it.

Yes, I have bug reported the fact that the shield bonus doesn't work with line.