Toughness changes

[SirValentine]

I greatly applaud the removal of requiring the Toughness feat to get Toughness enhancements. 48-108 extra HP for one feat made it near-mandatory for all sorts of builds, which I think is a symptom of poor design. Glad it's going.

But I really disagree with the extra free HP being based on 5-class-level breakpoints. This is another kick in the teeth of creative multiclassing.

If it's going to work out to 1 HP per level anyway, just give 1 HP per level and scrap the 5-class-levels thing.

[Daemoneyes]

/Signed

the every 5 class lvl part is bad design, it should be char lvl.

[apep1412]

There is no bonus at 20 iirc. Multiclassing only loses one of these if you take (12-14)/(3-4)/(3-4) or (8-9)/(7-9)/(2-4).
15/5, 10/10, and 10/5/5 will actually have 1 more of these than a pure class.

[fool101]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to log on yet, so I can't comment other than what's been shared here.

But if my character winds up with 20-40 less hp, but winds up with another available feat, then I am still for this. If this change makes it to live, toughness will basically be an ignored feat for most classes, which feels a little more natural to me.

Taking a toughness feat on a wizzie or artie, for instance, bothered me thematically. With more pressure off that one feat, it would seem that more variety in feats (and hence builds) is on the way.

[Forzah]

Unfortunately I haven't been able to log on yet, so I can't comment other than what's been shared here.

But if my character winds up with 20-40 less hp, but winds up with another available feat, then I am still for this. If this change makes it to live, toughness will basically be an ignored feat for most classes, which feels a little more natural to me.

Taking a toughness feat on a wizzie or artie, for instance, bothered me thematically. With more pressure off that one feat, it would seem that more variety in feats (and hence builds) is on the way.

You'd probably still want it to apply for epic toughness.

[Fedora]

Wait, so now the toughness enhancement is 5HP each? Is it still class/racial based, or is it available to all regardless?

This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't melees have a higher potential for HP than arcanes? And why go from 10 to 5?

[apep1412]

Wait, so now the toughness enhancement is 5HP each? Is it still class/racial based, or is it available to all regardless?

This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't melees have a higher potential for HP than arcanes? And why go from 10 to 5?

Most generic Toughness enhancements have been removed. The ones that remain are currently 5 HP for 2 AP per tier.

The base Heroic Durability feat has been changed from 20 HP to 25 HP. At class levels 5, 10, and 15 for every class, you gain an Improved Heroic Durability feat, which grants 5 HP each time it's given.

[Flavilandile]

Wait, so now the toughness enhancement is 5HP each? Is it still class/racial based, or is it available to all regardless?

This doesn't make sense. Shouldn't melees have a higher potential for HP than arcanes? And why go from 10 to 5?

No to answer your first question, thus making the second one moot.

The Two ranks of Racial Toughness are removed.

They are replaced by a +5 HP given to Heroic Durability at character creation and +5HP given ( for the time being ) when your character reach LVL 5, 10 or 15 in a given class.
( so for a LVL 20 character, pure class, you get +20 HP as if you has the old Racial Toughness Enhancements )

The Toughness feat is still here and Class Toughness is still there... for some classes, and only in some trees.

[Enoach]

Most, but not all Racial Toughness enhancements only allowed for 20 Extra HP

Human/Half-Elf: 30
WF/Dwarf: 40

They have also added HP to the Heroic Auto grant Feat

However, it does not appear that the Toughness enhancements are actually in the Racial Tree but have been moved (At least for Cleric) to a single class tree. So it looks like Racial Toughness enhancements have been sacked. Making this feat more useful for Builds that needed to sacrifice a couple points in constitution because of their MAD requirements or for TANK style builds who need more HP because they WANT to be in the line of fire. I honestly see many builds suddenly getting 1 feat to use for something else as Toughness will not equal 47-107 HP anymore.

[Ape_Man]

Woohoo!! More nerfs! Who needed all those dang HP anyway?

But I guess it gives us more AP to spend on the mandatory useless garbage we have to by to get the good stuff int he trees.

[Fedora]

I agree with apeman on this.

And 2AP per 5HP? I don't see anyone doing that, so why even have it in there?

I guess our hardy races aren't so hardy anymore except the ones who get bonus constitution stat. Multiclass takes a hit (albeit a small one) in the way of 5 HP vs. a pure.

[Zorth]

I agree with the changes.

***** Will there ever be more content favor, From Patrons, that will get us more Hitpoints?*****


I. Stuff that I do to get more hitpoints, that others can do too is:

- Get all 3 Barbarian past lives is 30.
take the past life barbarian feat is 20.

- Get 150 Argo favor from giant hold is 10.

- Green steal is 45.

Update: I forgot to talk about the action points. 2 per 5 hp.

I will not spend 2 ap for 5 hp, but I will use those action points to make my build more robust in stats and DPS.

It used to be 2 ap for 10 was worth it, and were a vital part of every melee build. Now that it is not we will see more diverse builds in stats and DPS.

I think this is good. In epic levels the hitpoints gained from enhancements can be overcome by using my methods as stated above.

Also, spending 6 action points for 2 points of Constitution (for barbarians and Dwarfs and Warforged) is 25 hp at level 25, which is more hp for less action points, with the new method, with the old we spent 6 action points for a total of 30 hp. The difference is now only 5 hp for the same amount of action points.

Peace.

- Max con at level 1 is +4 per level, +5 for some builds and with enhancement is +6.

- Rage potions is +1 per level.

- and the usual generic stuff for hitpoints.

[Deamus]

Not signed .I agree with HP changes.

[HastyPudding]

I agree with apeman on this.

And 2AP per 5HP? I don't see anyone doing that, so why even have it in there?

I guess our hardy races aren't so hardy anymore except the ones who get bonus constitution stat. Multiclass takes a hit (albeit a small one) in the way of 5 HP vs. a pure.

This^

Not even the most HP-conscious tank is going to spend their precious 2 AP just for 5 extra hit points when we used to spend 1 for 10.

[imandria]

But I really disagree with the extra free HP being based on 5-class-level breakpoints. This is another kick in the teeth of creative multiclassing.

If it's going to work out to 1 HP per level anyway, just give 1 HP per level and scrap the 5-class-levels thing.

Agreed, on both points. Strongly disliking this change.

[Gizeh]

Basing the bonus HP on class levels would only make sense if the amount of bonus HP depended on the type of class, for example 5 HP per 5 caster levels, 7 HP per 5 specialist levels and 10 HP per 5 melee levels.

As long as we will get 5 HP per 5 levels regardless of class the bonus HP should be based on character levels, not on class levels.

[clkpacker]

Basing the bonus HP on class levels would only make sense if the amount of bonus HP depended on the type of class, for example 5 HP per 5 caster levels, 7 HP per 5 specialist levels and 10 HP per 5 melee levels.

I quite like this idea.

I believe the 5HP/2AP will change to be less punitive--Maj already said the AP costs were deliberately high.

[Qhualor]

I wonder if people will still say you are gimp if you dont take toughness

2 AP for toughness enhancements sounds like a lot to me for 5 hp. Are we getting more AP to spend than we currently do? Comparing max toughness currently and AP spent to this new toughness enhancement line, is it less hp with more AP spent or does it even out?

[Cetus]

Paying 2 AP's for 5 hitpoints is outrageous

[kingfisher]

this is a stupid change. its like nerfing old gear so the new gear is looked at as 'good'. typical turbine ********.