Choice constriction

[SealedInSong]

- Cleric lost spell penetration
- Cleric's one "defender" prestige was vomited all over 2 trees, while dc caster and battlecleric trees omitted altogether.
- Rangers and pallies lost devotion lines.
- All spellcasters got a new skill tax
- Human Improved Recovery now costs double compared to live (move to tier 1,2,3 instead of 1,3,4 to fix)
- Your artificially restrictive tree system necessitated you padding them out with tons of junk (eg: cleric slas)

The healing ones are dandy. But some of the rest...yeah. Not so great.

[SealedInSong]

Spellcraft and Heal:

I'm not totally against moving the spellpower enhancements to the skill system, but if you really have to, give all the classes that take spellpower an additional skill point (and Clerics, Druids and FvS two, due to Heal). And make it so that the highest of INT, WIS, or CHA is the modifier for your Spellcraft. It's absurd that a Sorcerer's casting stat doesn't contribute to the skill that gives them more spellpower.

Or better yet, just drop this idea and give a bonus to universal spellpower based on class levels. +4 at level one, +1 for each level.

The Enhancement System:

Overall criticisms:

• Way, WAY too many prerequisites as compared to live, e.g:
  
  • Currently, Ranger Sprint Boost requires no investment in ranger enhancements, only levels. The first tier of Ranger Sprint Boost requires 1 AP
  • With the new system, you need to invest 5 points in the Tempest line BEFORE you can even purchase Sprint Boost. The first tier of Sprint Boost now requires 7 AP (and, besides Whirling Blades, all of the Tier 1 abilities are worthless). For a Ranged-specced Ranger who already has Sprint Boost, you are doing nothing but wasting six of their AP
  
  
• Players already invest in a class by taking class levels, they shouldn't have to invest so heavily in the class's enhancements
  
  • Currently, someone who wants Fighter or Rogue haste boost would take a level of that class and purchase the enhancements. They give up the capstone for their base class. Deeper splashes give up even more
    
    • With the current system, getting a specific, desired enhancement out of a class could be extremely cost intensive, depending on what it is you want to buy
    
    
  • Something interesting happens when you get even deeper splashes, like 12/8. Almost no power is lost from the base class: you give up the fifth and sixth core abilities, and *nothing else* (unless you count class-based DC effects, spells, or auto-granted/extra feats [of which many classes have none]). A 8/6/6 build gives up nothing but the fourth, fifth, and sixth core abilities of each class, yet unlocks every other enhancement for each class. I believe that this could create a large power gap between multi-classed and pure builds. I'm not saying a multi-classed toon shouldn't be more powerful, but I don't think they should be overtly so
    
    • Enhancement costs, however, are so high that it may not even matter. But I imagine a lot of builds coming up that have 12 to 15 levels in Ranger, Monk or Fighter (who get a lot of benefit from auto-granted/extra feats), but take a second class that has better enhancements and spend all the points in those trees
    
    
  
  
• The goal of the enhancements pass should have been to complete/add more prestige classes, buff the classes/prestiges that needed it, and improve the UI. Additional objectives could have been remove . What you're doing here is far too disruptive. You should work with what you already have, because the current system works but could be better

Some suggestions:

• Prestige lines should be reserved for prestige abilities. It is appropriate for Shield of Whirling Steel to be in the Tempest line. It is not appropriate for Sprint Boost to also be in there, even if it fits the theme of "speedy".
• Each class and race should have a "general enhancements" tree
  
  • These enhancements would NOT require the purchase of other enhancements in the "general enhancements" tree, unless they're an upgrade of a previously bought general enhancement (e.g. Spell Penetration II requires Spell Penetration I)
  • General enhancements are unlocked by using AP in any other tree, eg. tier 3 of the general enhancements is unlocked by spending twelve total AP
  • General enhancements would require a certain number of class levels
  • The general enhancements tree would contain enhancements that shouldn't be buried under prerequisites that aren't very useful. Human Healing Amp is a very important enhancement, yet is now buried under a bunch of other prerequisites that you might not want. Currently, TierIII of healing amp costs 12 AP. Now, if you want to keep it, you need to spend an additional 10 AP. It doesn't matter what racial enhancements you could purchase with that AP; it eats away at the AP you could have spent in other places. *No one* enjoys having to purchase things they don't want, just to unlock abilities they do want. And there is a lot of that in this build
  • A lot of the general enhancements will be (and should be) a copy-paste of existing enhancements
  
  
• Power should be moved back to the level of your class, and away from the number of enhancements you invest in that class. This would be accomplished by raising the required class level of the tiers, and lowering their AP cost (and/or giving auto-grants)

The User Interface:

The current one is a piece of junk. Has to refresh after you purchase something, the "hide these items" doesn't persist after a refresh (no, I don't want Improved Repair on my Rogue, stop showing it), lots of scrolling... this new one is better, but still a piece of junk. It could be a lot better. Quite simply, it takes up way too much screen space. I don't need to see the enhancements from one class, or my racial enhancements, if I'm working on the enhancements for another.

Suggestion:



It's so intuitive I won't even explain it.

I mean, he made a graphical aid. Autowin

[SealedInSong]

So I'm confused, how is giving some classes 15 free HP's and taking away elective toughness enhancements "more of a choice"?

I believe that's actually less of a choice?

Also this game really needs less extreme divergences from the PnP source material. I don't know how many of you guys played Neverwinter Nights, but it's so far the best D&D multiplayer video game ever made probably the most successful sales wise and it's also usually cited as the most faithful rules translation ever... These things aren't coincidental.

Many of DDO's biggest problems that were later fixed with kludgy non D&D systems are actually a direct result of poor PnP rules translation, as directly contrasted in NWN. An example: "Zerging" you fixed it with "Dungeon Alert" NWN "fixed it" by having a proper implimentation of "Attacks of Opportunity" so it never needed to "fix it" in the first place. Or how about Two weapon fighting? In DDO the reversed attack progression and incorrectly implemented TWF rules cause it to be too powerful. So instead of correcting the poorly translated rule and making the attack progression correctly descend in hit chance, you made up "Double strike" and nerfed off hand attacks. A good rules translation never has the problem in the first place, and never needs the kludge.

I realize that toughness enhancements are non PnP but they at least fit the flavor of the feat and are sort of an extension of them and are choices that can be made... this 5th 10th 15th thing is just arbitrary. There's no choice to it. Why not just give an extra 1hp per class level... it's the same thing.

Hopefully as more prestiges are released we'll see a bit more diversity here, but as it stands I'm not a big fan of the proposed implementation if people can't choose to focus even more on HP.

[SealedInSong]

The more I think about this, the more I think the whole system is flawed.

If you try and think about this graphically, make a chart or spreadsheet with all of a classes' abilities and enhancements. The current progression gives you all features along one axis as you progress along the other.

The new system divides those features along the opposite axis as well. You're not just climbing vertically reaching as far as the character extends along the horizontal, the horizontal is limited as well. Total area of covered features is thus limited.

A level 6 Artificer is comprised of the crossbow, the rune arm, the Artificer Knowledge granted feats, and the Buffs/spell casting.

The tree design forces you to min/max on one of those aspects and forsake the others.

People don't splash 2 rogue for just evasion. It's evasion, skill points, UMD access, the sneak attack die, trap skills, everything that the class brings to the table.

The Tree system means that you can only advance one aspect of all those class features, leaving so much behind.

You guys have put a year's worth of work into this, so I doubt you want to just scrap the whole process... You are dividing a classes abilities along an additional axis, however.

Interesting outlook, well-written. Touches on multiclass woes.

[Vestriel]

This new system is depressing.

Was all of the feedback from last year ignored? Customizability is one of the best aspects of this game, and it is being destroyed.

I might need to find a new game to play when this update comes out.

[SealedInSong]

This new system is depressing.

Was all of the feedback from last year ignored? Customizability is one of the best aspects of this game, and it is being destroyed.

I might need to find a new game to play when this update comes out.

Let's try to be as constructive as possible and hopefully by beta, it'll look good, and by live, it'll look great!

DDO is still the best around :]

[Vestriel]

Let's try to be as constructive as possible and hopefully by beta, it'll look good, and by live, it'll look great!

DDO is still the best around :]

It's true, DDO is currently a great game, that is why I play it.

I want to give constructive feedback, but it's hard to justify putting in the effort when it seems obvious to me that it will continue to be ignored.

The new enhancement system has serious core problems. Limiting characters to a handful of trees, requiring X points spent in each tree to get to most enhancements, and shoving all general enhancements into specialized PRE trees is bad design. This has been pointed out by many people many times over the past year, and the bad design is still being pushed through. If they didn't listen a year ago when the system was in its early stages, why would I expect them to overhaul the system a year later in the design process?

EDIT: @OP I apologize for *****ing on your thread. I applaud your optimism and hope that your efforts to improve things are successful.

[SealedInSong]

It's true, DDO is currently a great game, that is why I play it.

I want to give constructive feedback, but it's hard to justify putting in the effort when it seems obvious to me that it will continue to be ignored.

The new enhancement system has serious core problems. Limiting characters to a handful of trees, requiring X points spent in each tree to get to most enhancements, and shoving all general enhancements into specialized PRE trees is bad design. This has been pointed out by many people many times over the past year, and the bad design is still being pushed through. If they didn't listen a year ago when the system was in its early stages, why would I expect them to overhaul the system a year later in the design process?

Too true. I guess I've just given up on a lot of it, sadly.

[SealedInSong]

Originally Posted by Vargouille
Spending 20 AP gets you to Tier 4. Spending 4 more AP gets Endless Fusillade.

Tier 4 does not correspond to high character level requirement.

and 24 points is more than 1/4 of the available APs we have to spend

current on live we spend
3 AP for Damage boost II
4 AP for Crossbow Attack I + Crossbow Damage I
4 AP for Battle Engineer
----
11 AP total spent

the requirement for Battle Engineer was 16 total AP spent, not 16 total Artificer enhancement spent

the AP spent in Tree requirement should stay in the Core ability list
the tree ability should be total AP spent

and it's strictly inferior to manyshot. So...I guess I won't be taking this.

[walkingwolfmike]

I've not been able to get into Lama, but, that said, here is my thought on the whole re-vamp. No snarkyness intended.

I really just don't see why it is happening. The enhancement system as it stands now is just fine.

It allows great freedom to try new and exciting builds, and yet can still have some control so as not to allow a character to be too OP.

As far as I am concerned, trying to make a "simplified" Enhancement panel is kind of an insult to intelligence. Truly, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand the system as it stands now, but you do need to be a bit intuitive and spend a little time getting to know it.

In the end, what the material presented here on the forums represents to me is a lock down on build and play of characters to fit into a preconceived mold. Whose mold that is, I think we all have an idea.

[Scraap]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...38#post4979238

Something to point out: There's 2 sets of 3 questions in the general class one talking about what aspects feel the most constrictive by priority. Presumably, that's so they see which aspects to ease up on to what degree.

[SealedInSong]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...38#post4979238

Something to point out: There's 2 sets of 3 questions in the general class one talking about what aspects feel the most constrictive by priority. Presumably, that's so they see which aspects to ease up on to what degree.

I will be posting my responses here or in Ellis' thread.

[SealedInSong]

general concerns:

1. Spell power:
1.1 the idea of tying spell power into 'number of points spent in tree' is disasterous. Please dont do this. It forces you to spend heavily (ie max out) in that specific tree to aquire the top amount of spell power - this is some thing that almost all casters will want so what this system is doing is forcing casters to pick x tree to max out denying them versatility.
1.2 the idea of tying it into skills. This is less poor but you need to be aware that if your going to do this you should probably be granting various classes more skill points per lvl. These skills were not mandatory in pen and paper where the balance of skill points per lvl was originaly determined. Further more the benefit if based on skills should only be based on skill rank not total modifier because the sheer difference between an int skill on a wizard end game and an int skill on say a cleric or druid is huge. Furether more certain classes that may need these spell powers dont even have access to the relevant skill as a class skill!
1.3 little to no availabily of spell power outsidide the common choices for that class - this is a problem with the current system and one i see being transferred to the new one. Clerics get fire and electric and force spells... Wizards get sonic spells...

My solution: Each casting tree to get 3 drop downs for spell power (multi selectors). Each race to get 1 drop down multi selector for spell power(to enable boosting of past life actives and dragon marks).


2. Lack of freedom.
Please dont force us to 'buy' junk in order to aquire desired abilities. This is a fundamental design decision and one that you want to seem to do despite a strong opinion from your player base that it is not the right move.

Any and all gating should be purely 'character lvl' - not class lvl and not points spent in tree.
The 'auto grants' at the bottom of the tree should also folow this rule(but should not be the focus of power, rather they should eb small beenfits). We have payed for them by selecting them as one of our trees.

I would encourage you to make every ability desired (atleast by some one) . Make us struggle to allocate our points because we cant decide what cool features we want - rather than having us make the decision 'which tree do i want to max out?'

i say no to junk abilities as prerequisites!

3. This is a massive over haul. I was there when swg went under... I was in the angry crafters march that crashed the servers on everquest 2... Im deeply concerned that this kind of scope of changes can break a game - or atleast cause a mass exodus. Dont release this until your getting 90%+ positive feedback on the forums. Schedules be dammed, its this kind of thing that kills games. I can tell you now that if you release as it stands most of your long term divine players are going to leave - which will cripple end game raiding.

+1

[SealedInSong]

Uh, no! With the system we currently have on the Live servers, you can actually get more/better enhancements than in this phase of Alpha, and aside from prerequisites for some of the prestiges [which even then were at least somewhat helpful], you were not forced to take enhancements you didn't want. Furthermore, you aren't forced on the Live servers to take USELESS enhancements that pretty much offer nothing, or very little at best.

That being said, it is my belief that our characters on Live are actually MORE powerful than the characters on Lamannia because the Enhancements we do have on Live are considerably more powerful - especially the casters whose spell damage has been drastically nerfed thanks to the absence of damage-type and spell critical damage enhancements.

Versatility, and the viability of unique builds, is the bread and butter of DDO. It's what makes DDO stand out from all those other MMO's out there (excluding TES:O [The Elder Scrolls: Online], which as far as I can tell seeks to match DDO in enabling players to become whatever they want to be).

Bolded for emphasis

[SealedInSong]

Just finished digesting these trees...

So basically RS was made much more expensive and difficult to get...well that finally killed more then a few interesting builds still in our guild rooster which were no where near as good as the better builds out there.

No battle cleric line...for either caster or melee. Wow, that is incredibly dense. Sorry, but alpha still reveals design intent and this is the most basic of basic for how this pass should have gone... Give players more options. Instead the cleric trees are the prime example of what this pass really does...takes away viable options and makes a mess of a massive number of existing builds.

Two healbot trees...not even three trees and both are healbot nonsense.

An incredible density of flavor junk abilities in the trees. I mean SLA of mediocre spells...that is just wow bad.

Really these are do not pass go trees from basic design to implementation. Kill these monstrosities with fire and actually do three trees that do not make existing clerics delete their toons and move onto another MMO.

These are the worst of all the class trees from every angle that I have seen so far.

The other domain trees had better be outstanding. But I'm confused--how can clerics possibly get Exorcism, War, Healing, Protection, as well as racial trees? Are classes going to have access to more than three trees and then lock others out?...

[SealedInSong]

Both of these trees are extremely boring to me. Both cater to a nanny-bot playstyle, which is not at all fun.


PROTECTION

Protection could have been fun and interesting if it buffed the DC and maybe duration of secondary effects of spells like holy smite (blind), order's wrath (daze), soundburst (fake stun), comet fall (knockdown), etc. All of these are effective means of protecting groupmates from big bad monsters, and hammering a horde of enemies with these spells is a LOT more fun than nannying a tank. Note: while augmenting the damage of these spells would more properly belong in a more offensive-centric tree, augmenting the secondary effects easily falls into the realm of Protection and could have easily made it into this tree.

You could extend this concept by applying new debuffs to existing spells: inflict wounds/harm could apply a weakness or slow condition and give those spells a useful purpose, all light spells could have a chance of applying blindness, fire spells could apply a Flickers of Life debuff (allies that damage a thusly afflicted enemy are granted temp hp), etc.

(Greater) glyph of warding could be buffed to also provide a zone of protection, similar to a magister sigil.

There are numerous other debuffs (Bestow Curse, Blindness, Contagion, etc) that could have received a buff or become free procs off of some other, fun action.


To reiterate: there are multiple, more-fun ways of offering protection to allies than using Shield Other (which takes up roughly 40% of the tree in its functionality and pre-reqs!). The overfocus on this one ability makes Protection very one-dimensional, and it feels like no real choice/customization exists therein; it just feels like filler designed to spend down a copious amount of AP for the sole sake of spending down AP.


I also find it sad that it does nothing to improve the current set of protections that clerics have, or the gripes surrounding them. How about adding in a new meta-magic-like toggle that turns every cast of e.g., Resist Energy into Mass Resist Energy? People have been asking for a relief to this tedium for years; this seems like the first thing a cleric focused in protection and hauled around as a buff-bot would learn to do.

There is also an opportunity to make old spells more relevant again: a bear's endurance enhancement could cause that spell to additionally grant some exceptional fortification, bull's strength might offer some DR or PRR, etc. This would in turn lead to more hard decisions when planning out how spell slots are filled, which is a great thing. I really feel that enhancements should strive to gently push (incentivize) different PrE's towards different spell book configurations, which is not at all the case now.

All effects that bestow temp HP could have those temp HPs scaled with positive spellpower (i.e., a base of 20 temp HP and a positive spellpower of 300 would yield 80 actual temp HP). This could be broken into several enhancement ranks, with each purchase allowing 25-33% of spellpower to affect temp HP. Making it possible for Protection clerics to sustain a group largely through temp HP application would provide a substantially different feel compared to Healing Domain clerics.


Healing Domain

I won't go into the same length as I did with Protection above, but there are surely ways to help make Positive clerics less nannyish and reward them for participating more directly in combat if they so choose: free healing procs, temporary spell cost discounts on certain spells or temporary SP, etc. If it was still being called Radiant Servant, I would fully expect to see some Nimbus of Light/Searing Light SLAs or some other fun light-based stuff, but I guess we can't have that now...


OTHER THOUGHTS

No +spell-point enhancements is harsh. I suspect Mental Toughness will become the new no-choice feat for a lot of classes, in place of the now largely-defunct Toughness. It's certainly a must for clerics and likely wizards now.

Metamagic cheapeners for clerics is AWESOME. Being able to pick only one of Empower/Mazimize/Heighten/Quicken is NONAWESOME. Please provide a way to invest more deeply in multiple or all metamagics. I truly wish I could have invested an extra 12-18 AP in more metamagic cheapeners as opposed to what I actually did pick up.

Too much junk. I really had to work at spending my way to reach certain targets higher in the trees. I feel like I don't want even half of what I picked up, but I had to spend those points on something...

The line of "Core Abilities" feels really out of place now. When they were free auto-grants, it made sense for them to not be in the tree proper. This is no longer the case, and the six-chain dependency now feels punitive (Pacifism for instance is not something I would ever want, and yet I must pay for it or I can't get the mandatory burst). Ultimately I don't mind that these abilities must now be purchased with AP, but I do mind that they must be purchased in such a long dependency: forcing people to follow long, elaborate chains does not encourage build diversity. I suggest dismantling this concept: move all these "Core Abilities" up into standard tree space, and break their long dependencies. There is a general lack of true "a la carte" purchases that give people a chance to fully customize and diversify their build; far too many things require too many other dependencies and multi-purchases.

Well-stated, Btolson

[SealedInSong]

Originally Posted by ddobard1
seems right however I dont imagine a cleric to be as good as a sorc/wiz for nuking, but I can be wrong

for me whats right is a cleric to be the best of all for healing or protection (or good at offensive casting) and average low on the other fields

or good at healing, protection and average at offensive casting

Come play with my Cleric

Sure I won't have the same DPS as a Sorc...But I have more versatility, and run many quests/raids where I am out killing the sorcs by 30 - 100 kills (a couple very bad citw). On a raid boss, I'll not put out the same numbers--but I will spam Avenging Light- which hits between 300 - 1800+ for me, and Divine Punishment...as well as I am also in Shiradi so I get some nice 10,000- 17,000 procs---and keep the party healed. If I am not main healer, or party is self suffcient I am also using all my other light based spells and Cometfall on Bosses, sometimes harm too. I can also Curese many bosses--which mattered more in the old days, but might matter again. So not as much as an arcane-but--it does speed the death of bosses up, which ends up coasting LESS sp. I don't use pots unless it's life and death situation.

I think perhaps you don't view a cleric as a strong Offensive caster because many new players play Clerics, and when they start they are most concerned with having the most SP and Healing. Or people who only use Blade Barriers even when everything is in a dancing ball or held, Maybe you have not played with one that decimates the mobs anyway they can or CCs them anyway they can.

In the old days when there were PMS, Sometimes I even kept up with them or did better, we were discussing once that the cleric instakills just seem to land better tho they shouldn't...It is also about knowing how to take advantage of other spells people are using, and using your own things like Symbol of Death.

Also, you might not view them as strong offnseive casters because of kill count--and regardless what some folk think, 99% of offensive casters will stop to heal people--time spent healing =less time killing.

I think that those of us who have full knowledge of the Cleric Spell Book, should not have the ability to use these spells effectively taken away. I need my spell pen ehancements on top of my spell pen and Necro feats.

And gosh, if Turbine could throw us old school players whom chose Offensive casting Divines a bone, it would rock.

And DDOBard...you'd benefit from it most.

[azrael4h]

The thing that gets me about all of this is this:

We have asked for years, some of us longer than I've been around even, for completed PrEs. Not a complete gutting and rebuilding in an inferior form of the Enhancement system. Yes, some of the classes need a rebalancing of AP costs and in some cases some beefing up. Monks and Paladins come to mind for too high AP costs, Paladins and Rangers in generally weak enhancements.

Not only are we not getting the PrE's, what we are getting are significantly worse than what we have now. In fact, during the initial teaser thread over a year ago, it was stated somewhere that we would be getting all PrEs finished out, with each race getting a PrE. While no one sane liked the previewed tree limit, and everyone with some means of reason pointed out it would overly restrict multi-classing, the over-all thought of getting all PrEs done was cool.

We were also supposed to be able to take two PrEs to the equivalent of a Tier III now, or Mix and match the PrE's we have, which would have, theoretically, made for much more interesting pure builds at least. Imagine a RSII Warpriest III, full power Aura and burst as on live, but with whatever Warpriest bonuses as well, making them a fairly powerful front line support.

Take Cleric. We are supposed to get Domains, Warpriest PrE, Exorcist PrE, and a finished Radiant Servant PrE.

We got a crappy Radiant Servant, no domains at all (and no, "Healing Domain" and "Protection" trees are NOT domains, not in the least), no Warpriest, and no Exorcist. To top it off, to be viable at healing and offensive casting, they have to invest into INT heavily to take multiple skills. And will still be far worse than before. Instead of one skill minimum to be effective, they need three. Meaning 12 INT for non-humans (the majority of races). Minimum. That's ignoring highly useful skills such as Balance or UMD.

Take Fighter. Now Stalwart Defender has been made irrelevant and useless for 90% of the game, and Kensai - the only remaining viable PrE outside of a handful of raid boss fights - is sorely weakened for no apparent reason. PDK is nowhere to be found.

Take Ranger. Their already limited healing is sorely weakened, by the removal of devotion lines from the enhancements. They're not as hurt by the skill point tax, but with half-ranks and no particular emphasis on WIS, their Heal skill will suck hard. At least Tempest isn't worse than live. The bar was set too low with U5.

Bards are reported to actually LOSE a PrE. As Bards were well loved now! It's one of the lowest played classes in DDO now, only beating out some of the pay options. Heck, my Bard will no longer HAVE a PrE.

Basically, I can see no improvements. Each of the four classes previewed this week have lost a lot of power, lost a lot of versatility, and lost a lot of the appeal. I will not be playing a cleric at all post Enhancement pass. Nor a Fighter, nor a Ranger. Even though I was planning a TR back into Cleric, and currently have a Fighter and a Ranger. My nearly capped Artificer will likely be shelved, as will the TRed one.

I play this game to have fun now. Not remember how fun it was before the enhancement pass hit, when I could come up with bizarre builds, odd class splits, and even try something new with pure classes. This cannot be done with the new enhancements. Given the current state of classes shown so far, and how much they have lost any appeal and versatility, I highly doubt I will enjoy Wizard, Druid, Favored Soul, Rogue, Bard, or Monk. I was looking forward to a viable Warpriest or Divine Avenger. Barbarians maybe getting a PrE that I liked enough to try the class. Bards having a reason to take 18 levels as a Bard. None of these things will come to pass, so now I look forward to having more money in my bank account from not buying TR hearts.

The enhancement pass should have done two things: Added remaining PrEs to the existing system, and rebalanced the weaker races/classes' enhancements to make them cheaper and/or more viable. The UI is a wholly separate thing which did not require any adjustment to the underlying mechanics whatsoever.

[SealedInSong]

The enhancement pass should have done two things: Added remaining PrEs to the existing system, and rebalanced the weaker races/classes' enhancements to make them cheaper and/or more viable. The UI is a wholly separate thing which did not require any adjustment to the underlying mechanics whatsoever.

I agree with everything except that I do see some clear improvements--some novel enhancements, some tweaking of things like Divine Might that we have asked for. Earthgrab Kundarak greater DM, the release of Henshin, things like that are great. I'll reserve my judgments for bards.

But on the whole, yes. This alpha had better be just an alpha; the prelude to a beta that's better, and a live version that's worthwhile.

[SealedInSong]

Artificers are getting a large Repair spell power nerf. As a 16 Artificer/2 Monk/2 Ranger I'm going from 100 Repair spell power on live from enhancements to:

23 Heroic Repair ranks
05 Epic Repair ranks
04 Greater Heroism
02 Good Luck
03 INT 16 bonus
---
37
15 (future Repair augment)
---
52

You have to be an INT-based level 18 Artificer, spend 30 points in Battle Engineer and are forced to use a Runearm just to maintain the same Repair spellpower. That does not promote character customization.

Repair spellpower needs to be added back into each Artificer tree as a core ability. Something like 1 Repair/Rust spell power for each point spent in the tree.

Thank you for showing us this terrifying possibility, Carpone.