Rangers and Paladins need their devotion lines back

[Ape_Man]

Skills give spell power now? That's a brilliant idea. I couldn't care less if it nerfs things, anything to make skills useful is a huge bonus.

So you have skill points to spare on all your toons?

This is as bad as the need to have to slot in a Devotion item where pre-U14 it wasn't required with 75% ardor pots.

[Ganolyn]

Skills give spell power now? That's a brilliant idea. I couldn't care less if it nerfs things, anything to make skills useful is a huge bonus.

You cannot see the forest for the trees...

[Dilbon]

You cannot see the forest for the trees...

I don't care about the forest, I like individual trees better. What things do to characters' general power level is irrelevant, what is more important that there are less things that are totally useless.

[ComicRelief]

*snip*
ALL spell power enhancements have been removed from all classes. Now you spend skill points to get spell power:

Heal: Positive & Negative
Perform: Sonic
Spellcraft: All other spell power

*snip*

Not sure if you noticed (didn't see anything in this thread, yet), but in the current release notes (dated 4/11), it specifes that the new Spellcraft skill is:

1) An INT based skill. So CHA-based builds (e.g. Bards, Sorcs) seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

2) Is a class-skill for Arty, Bard, Cleric, Druid, FvS, Sorc, and Wiz, and a cross-class skill for "everyone else". Which means that Pally and Ranger also appear to be getting the short end of the stick. And since Pally is a CHA-based build, doubly so.

Granted, this is "alpha", but still - this is how it appears to be ATM.

'Twill be interesting to see how this plays out...

[Vellrad]

Will we get extra skill points?
Also, perform is bard only skill, are other classes forbidden to enhance sonic spells suddenly?

[Ganolyn]

I don't care about the forest, I like individual trees better. What things do to characters' general power level is irrelevant, what is more important that there are less things that are totally useless.

They don't need to ruin anything to make skills more useful. All they need to do to accomplish that would to make more skills available with no penalty to more classes and/or make certain skills buffable by more than one stat, like say the new Spellcraft skill. There are some skills that could apply more to content, but that is a quest design decision, not a skills problem. Robbing from Peter to pay Paul doesn't really make it a better system.

[Ape_Man]

I don't care about the forest, I like individual trees better. What things do to characters' general power level is irrelevant, what is more important that there are less things that are totally useless.

You will have to give up currently USEFUL skill point to get this ability. How do you not see that as being terrible?

[budalic]

Will we get extra skill points?
Also, perform is bard only skill, are other classes forbidden to enhance sonic spells suddenly?

Um, suddenly? I seem to recall only bards and druids having sonic spellpower enhanchments in current system.

Not sure if you noticed (didn't see anything in this thread, yet), but in the current release notes (dated 4/11), it specifes that the new Spellcraft skill is:

1) An INT based skill. So CHA-based builds (e.g. Bards, Sorcs) seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

2) Is a class-skill for Arty, Bard, Cleric, Druid, FvS, Sorc, and Wiz, and a cross-class skill for "everyone else". Which means that Pally and Ranger also appear to be getting the short end of the stick. And since Pally is a CHA-based build, doubly so.

Granted, this is "alpha", but still - this is how it appears to be ATM.

'Twill be interesting to see how this plays out...

And what would pally and ranger need spellcraft for?

Skill affecting positive spellpower (which is what matters for healing) is heal. It's on class skill list of both pally and ranger; and it's wis based (which means that both will prolly get equally low stat bonus).

EDIT: Um, and yeah, this change is... odd, at very least. I don't see why skills affecting spell damage was needed; and I find pale masters needing heal very hilarious.

[BigSlugger]

Um, suddenly? I seem to recall only bards and druids having sonic spellpower enhanchments in current system.

Artificers, sorcerers, and wizards have it also. (It's tied in with the electric enhancements.)

[budalic]

Artificers, sorcerers, and wizards have it also. (It's tied in with the electric enhancements.)

Hmm, never noticed that. Thanks.

I guess it matters for shiradi arcane builds.

[Dilbon]

You will have to give up currently USEFUL skill point to get this ability. How do you not see that as being terrible?

Give up useful skill points to spend on useful skills. That's not bad. That's a choice.

[Vellrad]

Um, suddenly? I seem to recall only bards and druids having sonic spellpower enhanchments in current system.

You forgotten about wizards and sorcerers. Didn't checked on artificers.

[Ape_Man]

Give up useful skill points to spend on useful skills. That's not bad.

To the ignore list you go, you are not wroth reading.

[mute_mayhem]

You will have to give up currently USEFUL skill point to get this ability. How do you not see that as being terrible?

Dude, you get to CHOOSE how to gimp yourself...

What's not to love about more choices?

[honkuimushi]

Give up useful skill points to spend on useful skills. That's not bad. That's a choice.

Would you like to lose your right hand or your left hand? That's a choice too. Not much of one, but there you go. Or maybe you're a Game of Thrones fan... Would you prefer prefer to keep your hands or your tongue? I bet that minstrel was saying to himself, "Joffrey's not that bad, he gave me a choice."

It's exaggerated, but having a choice between two unpleasant options is not necessarily a good thing.

[Dilbon]

It's exaggerated, but having a choice between two unpleasant options is not necessarily a good thing.

It's not unpleasant if you forget everything that was before. Now you simply choose between say balance and heal. Cake or pie.

[Matuse]

Not sure if you noticed (didn't see anything in this thread, yet), but in the current release notes (dated 4/11), it specifes that the new Spellcraft skill is:

1) An INT based skill. So CHA-based builds (e.g. Bards, Sorcs) seem to be getting the short end of the stick.

2) Is a class-skill for Arty, Bard, Cleric, Druid, FvS, Sorc, and Wiz, and a cross-class skill for "everyone else". Which means that Pally and Ranger also appear to be getting the short end of the stick. And since Pally is a CHA-based build, doubly so.

What you missed from the release notes is that Spellcraft DOESN'T WORK ON HEALING SPELLS, so there is absolutely no reason for a Paladin or Ranger to ever spend a single point on it. They want the Heal skill, which is in-class for both of them, and wis-based.

[blerkington]

Hi,

From what I can see here, these changes do not look like an improvement.

Thanks.

[Dilbon]

Hi,

From what I can see here, these changes do not look like an improvement.

Thanks.

They don't improve current things, but they do improve things in general if you forget everything that exists now. It's a whole new and better system.

[Qezuzu]

but they do improve things in general if you forget everything that exists now

Re-read this statement and look up the definition of "improve."