Rangers and Paladins need their devotion lines back

[Aashrym]

The easiest thing to do would be replace the current uneeded trash pre-req abilities with Devotion abilities. Then we could get our much needed heal amp back WHILE spending towards our desired top tier abilities.

Well, no, because then it's locked into specific trees still. The solution for that was to have spell power applied per AP spent. Positive spell power the same way caster trees are adding universal spell power for each AP spent in any ranger or paladin tree would be the better way to go I would think.

That promotes more flexibility in the trees select without having to worry about the devotion line tree, and promotes more synergy with multiclassing things like arcane bardchers or radiant pallies (even tho that isn't the name of the tree).

[BOgre]

Ah. Yes, that would be better.

[oradafu]

Well, no, because then it's locked into specific trees still. The solution for that was to have spell power applied per AP spent. Positive spell power the same way caster trees are adding universal spell power for each AP spent in any ranger or paladin tree would be the better way to go I would think.

That promotes more flexibility in the trees select without having to worry about the devotion line tree, and promotes more synergy with multiclassing things like arcane bardchers or radiant pallies (even tho that isn't the name of the tree).

I think Aashrym's solution that the Positive Spell Power being tied to the total AP spent in the Ranger and Paladin would solve the problem. I don't know any other way to attach it to the new ranger trees. The Paladin trees could have Devotion increases included in the Lay On Hands enhancements (as a small additional perk to those enhancements). However, Aashrym's solution seems the most reasonable.

[Drona]

I'll have to wait and see the wizard/sorc trees but this seems like a minor buff for sorc's and a HUGE buff to wizards.

Am I reading it right or is it my eyes? Wizards getting more buff and be more useful than sorcs? lol yeah not gonna happen..too many WF sorc easy button accounts that Turbine cant afford to lose

[Charononus]

Am I reading it right or is it my eyes? Wizards getting more buff and be more useful than sorcs? lol yeah not gonna happen..too many WF sorc easy button accounts that Turbine cant afford to lose

Well wf are getting repair amp potentially instead of healers friend.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Well, no, because then it's locked into specific trees still. The solution for that was to have spell power applied per AP spent. Positive spell power the same way caster trees are adding universal spell power for each AP spent in any ranger or paladin tree would be the better way to go I would think.

That promotes more flexibility in the trees select without having to worry about the devotion line tree, and promotes more synergy with multiclassing things like arcane bardchers or radiant pallies (even tho that isn't the name of the tree).

Blech. No thank you.

I like the idea of actually having to choose to have Devotion or not have Devotion. Having Spell Power come automatically with the tree is something that I don't like at all (and I don't like it in the Cleric tree or any other tree either).

[Missing_Minds]

Just doing some thinking here. I haven't had a chance to install lama, let alone see if it will let me in yet. I have downloaded it at least. So please correct me where I'm wrong.


Current Live:
lvl 1 : 20% increase to the effectiveness of your healing spells
lvl 4 : 40% increase to the effectiveness of your healing spells
lvl 7 : 60% increase to the effectiveness of your healing spells
lvl 10 : 80% increase to the effectiveness of your healing spells.

Now the new method, assuming I understand what has been written to the forums so far.

Less skill points open to take stuff. This really hurts multiclassers. (but also makes it more true to 3.5 in the fact that it always seemed to lack enough skill points for stuff, honestly. So as far as this goes, I actually find this idea intriguing.)

This is going to force people to wear healing skill items as mandatory. (This is the exact sort of thing Turbine wanted to stay way from. Want proof? Look at the change to the Toughness enhancements.)


As you are getting 1 point per skill lvl. My typical ranger, level 1. (goodbye swim skill)
4 ranks in heal.
+3 healing skill item
+2 from a 14 wisdom score. (this is probably more than your average current ranger in game, baring monkchers.)

Oh look, I have a healing spell power of 9 now as opposed to 20.

Ok, lets have a look at lvl 10 then?
14 ranks in heal
+10 skill item
+6 from a 22 wisdom score. (+6 item, +2 tome, base 14)

I have a healing spell power of 30 vs 80? Seriously?

What is unknown (I haven't had a chance to install lama, let alone see if it will let me in yet. I have downloaded it at least) is if spending AP will grant additional power like full casters (per forums) are going to get.

[Archangel666]

Test Results.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...89#post4981289

[SealedInSong]

I'm not even sure it makes sense for Rangers and Pallys to not get the Magical Training Feat to be honest. Doesn't make sense at level 1 sure, but at level 4 when they go to a Class Trainer, who Trains them to use Magic? It should be a free Feat for all Blue bars given at the appropriate levels.

I'd take that. I'm just saying that I find it particularly egregious that bards are being left out of the magical training seminar.

They are clearly, indisputably, 100% casting arcane and divine spells--something no other single class does. They need Magical Training.

Paladins and rangers I can see being excluded, but I'd prefer for any blue bar to be on the same footing, as you said.

[SealedInSong]

I'm concerned for bard healers because heal isn't a class skill for them and based on what we've seen song magic will likely no longer exist as well, but from what I saw when it hit lamma previously there was going to be bonuses for universal spell power but when previously clerics and bards both had +80 positive spell power it now it looks like clerics will have +1.5 per point and bards might have +1 per point (universal) plus the need to cross class heal (also wisdom based) and take another relative drop on top of having the smaller spell pool and weaker healing spells.

After all the lobbying that people like you and Leslie, and less often me, have done for bards... the devs settle on this.

Not surprised. Also, really not happy.

[Ganolyn]

I'd take that. I'm just saying that I find it particularly egregious that bards are being left out of the magical training seminar.

They are clearly, indisputably, 100% casting arcane and divine spells--something no other single class does. They need Magical Training.

Paladins and rangers I can see being excluded, but I'd prefer for any blue bar to be on the same footing, as you said.

It has been stated that Bards are covered in that respect and to wait until they get them on the server to pass judgement.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=154

[SealedInSong]

Blech. No thank you.

I like the idea of actually having to choose to have Devotion or not have Devotion. Having Spell Power come automatically with the tree is something that I don't like at all (and I don't like it in the Cleric tree or any other tree either).

I have to agree with Hungarian here. Although Aashrym's solution does mitigate some of the sting from the nerf, it still doesn't address the issue that the devs took away healing specialization AS A PLAYER CHOICE away.

Again, hundreds of pages of asking them not to make the system like this, and we got exactly what we didn't want. Mind-boggling.

[SealedInSong]

It has been stated that Bards are covered in that respect and to wait until they get them on the server to pass judgement.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=154

but considering how receptive the devs are to our requests and their "understanding" of the game, I have a stinking feeling Vargouille is merely referring to some ungodly mechanic where a warchanter has to spend 30 points on trash to get a diluted Magical Training effect in the spellsinger tree.

That's not good enough for me. Bards clearly have magical training, so they should have the magical training feat.

I don't understand how the devs can justify processes such as:

"Hey, we should make skills more useful"
"We could tie spellpower to skills"
"Great, that'd immensely benefit one of the most powerful classes out there, the wizard"
"Okay"
"Let's also get rid of spellpower specialization enhancements"
"Great"
*pointedly ignoring all the traditionally weaker hybrid classes that it nerfs*

Who knows, maybe there will be a very tiny AP-tax to get a similar effect for bards. Somehow I doubt it, though. And it wouldn't be hard at all to say, "Hey, it makes no sense that bards don't have the Magical Training feat." But clearly, they think it's not hard to, say, completely revamp the skill and spellpower and spellpower enhancement mechanics at the expense of at least three whole classes.