Clerics are now Hjealbots

[justagame]

If this went live, at a bare minimum, I would TR all of my divines -- caster and melee alike, into other classes. Worst cast, should all classes end up similarly pigeon-holed or backloaded, I've lost just about all interest in the game. I know it's early, but this system is THAT bad (interface aside). Tweaking isn't going to do it, the entire premise behind it is at odds with what I like about the game.

[Pape_27]

The Protector has actually some things which help an offensive caster, and are not healing-specific:

Tier 1 Core Protector ability: "+1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree."
Command
Efficient Metamagic, especially for Maximize

I agree that it's not much, but it's not nothing.

What kind of bonuses would you like to see in addition to the above?

Many of the Protector Bonuses are passive bonuses to Saves, AC, PRR for yourself, or other characters. As I see it, this makes also Battle Clerics more interesting, as the defensive bonuses help you when you are actively engaging mobs in melee.

It looks like Turbine is interested to promote Clerics as the defensive divine caster. It would be nice to have a more offensive tree as well. As it stands, it looks like there is room for a third tree. It would be nice to have a warpriest (or suitably named) tree which offers offensive bonuses for fighting or casting.

ty for point out the sp bonus Karl, I had missed that.

the major problem I am see is two-fold.
1. The tree as we currently see it? Its going to be very similar to what we see now. There might be some minor changes, but once things hit Llamania, Turbine has a definite track record of not changing things. It will come to the live servers basically as we see it.

2. There has been supposition that there might be a third tree included. If it is not in place by the time the enhancement pass goes live, we will never see it. Turbine has a superior track record of not completing things. Does any actually think they will follow thru?

The changes so far I no like.

[Flavilandile]

That's what's so depressing to me - Lammania has never been a real "beta" server, at least not in the time I've been playing.

Well the Fact that MajMal and Squeak both refer to the Enhancement Pass on Lamania right now as an Alpha version gives me a few hope. Maybe they managed to coax the marketdroïds that it would be best for the long term of DDO to do that update in coordination with us.

We can only hope tough.

[HuneyMunster]

- Healing Domain
For each action point spent in this tree, you gain 1 Light Spell Power and 1.5 Positive Energy Spell Power.

- Protector
You gain +2 AC for each Protection Core Ability you possess (including this one). +1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree.


What the total number of spell point you can spend in a tree? 42, 50, 60?

I currently hav 1 monk and wiz splash for +2 wis, 40 force power and 2 feats. It seems no matter which tree I choose, I would most probably be losing light and negative spell power than I currently can get on live. I gain an increase to fire and untype/physical dmg from USP, but my DC's will be reduced from having less wisdom making the spells that use these types harder to land. Not seen the arcane trees to see what I can get back from just 1 splash in Wiz.

[Svartelric]

Lol. People have been begging for cleric domains for years. Now that they come out the first thread about them is negative. Of course the healing domain focus will include a weakness in offensive.

What? Maybe you were thinking a healing domain should also have a bonus to offensive spellpower, DC's on Evocations and necromancy, and +1[w] on melee damage?

You obviously have no idea of what cleric domains are and how they work. They are not part of a PrE, first of all, and should be an inherent part of every cleric's spellcasting capacity. What we are seeing so far is a lazy sketchy mockup of a PrE that had the name "domain" shamelessly glued on.

[HungarianRhapsody]

- Healing Domain
For each action point spent in this tree, you gain 1 Light Spell Power and 1.5 Positive Energy Spell Power.

- Protector
You gain +2 AC for each Protection Core Ability you possess (including this one). +1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree.


What the total number of spell point you can spend in a tree? 42, 50, 60?

I currently hav 1 monk and wiz splash for +2 wis, 40 force power and 2 feats. It seems no matter which tree I choose, I would most probably be losing light and negative spell power than I currently can get on live. I gain an increase to fire and untype/physical dmg from USP, but my DC's will be reduced from having less wisdom making the spells that use these types harder to land. Not seen the arcane trees to see what I can get back from just 1 splash in Wiz.

You can spend AP in a tree until you run out of things to select. When I was playing with it on my freshly rolled and immediately capped (the level-to-20 "vendor" is a GREAT addition to Llama) Cleric, I was able to put 80 AP into the Healing tree. That gives a total Spell Power of 120 for Healing spells - with that increasing to 145 Spell Power with Pacifism toggled on. Without any Devotion or Potency items.

...of course, it also leaves me with exactly -50 Spell Power to every other spell except for Light which has a Spell Power of 30. Exactly the one dimensional cripple that many people ask for in a Cleric.

In the Live environment, you need to spend 10 AP to be "heal specced" on a Cleric or FvS. After that initial modest investment, you can throw your AP into all sorts of fun offensive choices. In the new enhancements environment, there is much more of a sliding scale and a Cleric that multiclasses will be VERY far behind a pure Cleric if they spend a significant number of AP in that second class's tree.

[susiedupfer]

With people unable to enter a quest while in a party, I hesitate to ask this, but is the 1.5 to positive REALLY 1.5 or is it .75(half spellpower) to heal and mass heal?

(Can't get Lama to function, otherwise I would go see for myself.)

[susiedupfer]

I was in the dev chat on Lama last night.

Sure, there'll be more options someday...just like there was going to be a Tier 3 Radiant Servant and the other 2 PrEs under the current enhancement system someday.

They can't live up to their previous promises, so they've completely backed off. They said each class will have "at least" 2 trees when the enhancement pass is released...and that adding other options for Cleric was something they wanted to look at "in the future".

Oh, and say goodbye to the little bit of offensive stuff Clerics had previously. No more nice Smiting line to up DP, no more option for Spell Pen, etc..

Though the real problem is that they didn't add 2 domains or create 2 PrEs...they RECLASSIFIED all the enhancements into 2 arbitrary "trees" named after domains, and with HUGE spent-in-tree prerequisites for higher tiers. So you can't actually take the enhancements you want if they are split across trees, because you simply don't have enough points.

Thank you for this. That is exactly what I needed to know. No endgame clerics in my future.

[dirtphillips]

You can spend AP in a tree until you run out of things to select. When I was playing with it on my freshly rolled and immediately capped (the level-to-20 "vendor" is a GREAT addition to Llama) Cleric, I was able to put 80 AP into the Healing tree. That gives a total Spell Power of 120 for Healing spells - with that increasing to 145 Spell Power with Pacifism toggled on. Without any Devotion or Potency items.

...of course, it also leaves me with exactly -50 Spell Power to every other spell except for Light which has a Spell Power of 30. Exactly the one dimensional cripple that many people ask for in a Cleric.

In the Live environment, you need to spend 10 AP to be "heal specced" on a Cleric or FvS. After that initial modest investment, you can throw your AP into all sorts of fun offensive choices. In the new enhancements environment, there is much more of a sliding scale and a Cleric that multiclasses will be VERY far behind a pure Cleric if they spend a significant number of AP in that second class's tree.

Why are you worried about taking a healing enhancements if healing is such an unfun chore for you? Don't take them, easy. Certainly you don't expect that healing yourself with just your blue bar is all you should need. Can I introduce you to silver flame pots, heal scrolls, or the many other options shoved into melees faces when healing is discussed. If you choose not to take them, that is your problem.

More broadly, it appears that Turbine is, in fact, telling clerics that they will be defensive oriented/healing types. I suspect FVS will be the offensive option that people in this thread are pining for. This thread amounts to a forum tantrum over this decision (if I am correct). I am enjoying watching the proverbial screaming kids in the floor of Walmart. Maybe they will finally take the hint and get an arcane for offensive casting.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Why are you worried about taking a healing enhancements if healing is such an unfun chore for you? Don't take them, easy.

I like healing. I like doing other things in addition to healing.

I like healing myself. I like healing other characters. I don't want to have that be the *ONLY* thing that my character is suited for.

More broadly, it appears that Turbine is, in fact, telling clerics that they will be defensive oriented/healing types.

I agree. I think that this is a BIG problem.

[Khatzhas]

It sounds like a lot of the restrictions in place currently will be relaxed. There is always the chance that you will be able to build an offensive caster cleric by splashing Wizard or Favoured Soul and building off the enhancements of that class.

[Gremmlynn]

ty for point out the sp bonus Karl, I had missed that.

the major problem I am see is two-fold.
1. The tree as we currently see it? Its going to be very similar to what we see now. There might be some minor changes, but once things hit Llamania, Turbine has a definite track record of not changing things. It will come to the live servers basically as we see it.

2. There has been supposition that there might be a third tree included. If it is not in place by the time the enhancement pass goes live, we will never see it. Turbine has a superior track record of not completing things. Does any actually think they will follow thru?

The changes so far I no like.

Well the half done way even the best trees were sent to Llamania in supports this. It seems like the took whatever new ideas they had done, shoved them into boxes left over from ED's along with whatever old enhancements they could fit in and called it done to me.

[Mubjon]

It sounds like a lot of the restrictions in place currently will be relaxed. There is always the chance that you will be able to build an offensive caster cleric by splashing Wizard or Favoured Soul and building off the enhancements of that class.

If those are like the other trees to get full tree you will need min five levels of that class.

[wtorchia]

This thread amounts to a forum tantrum over this decision (if I am correct). I am enjoying watching the proverbial screaming kids in the floor of Walmart. Maybe they will finally take the hint and get an arcane for offensive casting.

Here is the thing. I have played my cleric for 2+ years now. I REALLY like my set up on live. As a Half Orc 17 cleric/2 pal / 1 fighter in good gear I can stand in melee and heal just fine. I am able to cast and fight with the best of them. My aura and burst + SP keeps the party up in EE content just fine.
With the way they are going I will loose a TON from my build. I will have to LR to drop balance or stat points just to keep my heals on par with now. I will loose out on my light bonus, I will loose out on SP. I am fine loosing things as long as I GET something in return. With the way things are now I get nothing that I want. Most other clerics are in the same boat. The cleric class is very flexible and can be so many things. Turbine is killing that with these changes.

[anivaj]

Here is the thing. I have played my cleric for 2+ years now. I REALLY like my set up on live. As a Half Orc 17 cleric/2 pal / 1 fighter in good gear I can stand in melee and heal just fine. I am able to cast and fight with the best of them. My aura and burst + SP keeps the party up in EE content just fine.
With the way they are going I will loose a TON from my build. I will have to LR to drop balance or stat points just to keep my heals on par with now. I will loose out on my light bonus, I will loose out on SP. I am fine loosing things as long as I GET something in return. With the way things are now I get nothing that I want. Most other clerics are in the same boat. The cleric class is very flexible and can be so many things. Turbine is killing that with these changes.

Ever since EDs came out, Turbine has been showing more and more that they WANT people to have less flexibility in builds. They apparently don't realize that this is the ONLY thing they have over a lot of better MMOs out there. If they don't realize and continue to embrace it soon, they will lose a lot of their player base.

[jskinner937]

So I am not understanding the outcry here...

Pacifism is a toggle stance. Meaning even if it is auto-granted to your cleric and you plan on doing battle, disable it.

[DarkForte]

So I am not understanding the outcry here...

Pacifism is a toggle stance. Meaning even if it is auto-granted to your cleric and you plan on doing battle, disable it.

Sigh.

This isn't about that one toggle. It's about clerics getting NOTHING to offensive spellcasting or to melee damage with the new enhancements. What we once thought would be the caster/melee PrE for clerics (Exorcist of the Silver Flame/Warpriest of Siberys) aren't here, and it seems clerics are expected by the developers to either HJEAL MEH or to stand around shield blocking while HJEALING MEH.

[Don1966]

sadly, this enhancement pass, which is actually a fumble, has totally killed my favorite character to play, a 2wf clonk, and totally destroyed my plans to build a completionist version of that character.

[Aashrym]

Sigh.

This isn't about that one toggle. It's about clerics getting NOTHING to offensive spellcasting or to melee damage with the new enhancements. What we once thought would be the caster/melee PrE for clerics (Exorcist of the Silver Flame/Warpriest of Siberys) aren't here, and it seems clerics are expected by the developers to either HJEAL MEH or to stand around shield blocking while HJEALING MEH.

They get universal spell power bonus for points spent in the other tree, and are looking at spell power for the spellcraft skill. That gives them more spell power in some areas than they currently have for some offensive spells. It doesn't look like a lot yet but both trees and spellcraft look like they add to light damage so that will be where you still have some offensive power with divine punishment.

[psteen1]

Just read this entire thread, and don't think I saw a single positive comment about the new cleric.

Devs, you would be CRAZY to release this verion of clerics. No one will play it.

Please merge the protection and healing tree, provide a melee tree, and provide a offensive caster tree. That is a really easy breakdown of the cleric archetypes.