Clerics are now Hjealbots

[Deamus]

I play melee Clerics from day 1 of DDO . These changes actually killed the class for me . O well time to tr I guess

PS: Hope developers rethink what they have done to cleric prestige and fix it . I'm sorry for the word i will use but it was a sloppy implementation. As I see Death pact in Core abilities on protection domain and also is prerequisite for the last tier it makes me a bit sick.

[Pape_27]

"This existence of this enhancement is pigeonholing Clerics!" is as stupid as saying the existence of the Mechanic PrE pigeonholes Rogues into being trapmonkeys.

If you don't want it, don't take it.

If you take it (because you want some abilities to which Pacifism is a preq), toggle it off if you don't want the penalties.

If a raid leader is requiring you to be fully heal-specced, screw them because no good raid group requires that. Do you seriously want to join a group that requires such intensive babysitting?

If the new Cleric enhancements lack enough bonuses to offensive power, that's a completely different issue entirely. But don't be surprised that a class known for being the best healer has a healing-focused domain.

1. its not stupid to say that. That's whats happening
2. There are still no Domains. This is an enhancement pass.
3. So far there are no enhancement bonuses to offensive power.

[Matuse]

That's cool as it means those who wait for a cleric will actually get what they are waiting for.

Wait 10 minutes for a cleric, or wait 5 hours for a healbot. Which do you prefer?

[Pape_27]

That's cool as it means those who wait for a cleric will actually get what they are waiting for. Rather than an awesome self-healer who, at best, heals others as an afterthought. Because, quite frankly, the main appeal of divine classes in DDO is that any class designed to heal entire parties can very easily keep themselves healed.

Yes you must be my Hjealbot! Hjeal Me Nao!


makes me sick.

[Qezuzu]

1. its not stupid to say that. That's whats happening

I interpreted the OP as being upset that there was an ability that sacrifices damage for healing.

3. So far there are no enhancement bonuses to offensive power.

And that's a problem.

[Pape_27]

And that's a problem.

that's a major problem.

[buddabopp]

I had a crazy idea how would a top tier ability that did a small aoe light damage burst say 1d4 per 2 lvls that went off whenever you healed someone name the ability something like passive aggression and require pacifism to be active to at least make healbotting less of a bore.

but ya the lack of offensive capabilities is really sad at least give butt loads of dc and spell penn for the command sla.

[saco]

Was gonna make a cleric... key word was. Was hoping for a Battle Cleric but after this preview looks I might have to wait to see what the Favored Soul offers.

I have no qualms healing and will strictly heal in a raid situation but having to play nanny in every run is not something I want for my cleric. Not even offensive spells perks from what I recall.

[PNellesen]

Was gonna make a cleric... key word was. Was hoping for a Battle Cleric but after this preview looks I might have to wait to see what the Favored Soul offers.

If you were planning a Fighter splash, be aware (if you weren't already) that there is no longer a Fighter Haste Boost enhancement...

No, I'm not joking.

[Barbosao]

I just tested the Pacifism enhancement and the -50% means -50 spell power...
Then if you have 40 Spell Power in Acid you go to -10 Spell Power.

Not a big problem imo, and its a toggle, so if you want to really melee or cast a bb isnt a problem.

[maddmatt70]

I'm completely Necro and light specc'd without RS..and I still find many other cleric spells useful and damaging..mind you I had to grind out crazy gear/past lives/spell power & clickies/ buy spell power & efficay potions/destinies to do this...but I did do it...

This move by DDO scares me...Healing was already very easy in this game with strategy, and without strategy in 90% of content. You and I may play our Clerics differently, but one thing we have in common is that we will take just a Bard to heal a whole raid, heck, sometimes even a Melee type that is just good with scrolls...I sense this change might mean that the content will be too hard to just take a group and get going.

I do not think healing is too bad other then perhaps the costs. It is protection that is far more terrible and troubling. There is a use to having a healbot. You can solo heal an epic elite FOT type of quest with pugs without using too many resources on a cleric the way this is going. It is difficult to fill an lfm for those type of quest due to divines not wanting to join. Some of the divines in my guild will eventually be able (due to the devs upping healing efficient) to solo heal a quest like that with several pugs without going nuts on the resources.

I do not know the divine spells are just so flawed other then divine punishment it just is not worth the trouble really. Instakills can be decent still, and symbols and a few things like that, but really what have you.

[Gremmlynn]

Wait 10 minutes for a cleric, or wait 5 hours for a healbot. Which do you prefer?

I generally just use a hireling myself. But in that case I'd either wait 5 hours for a healer or less than 10 minutes for whatever else hit the LFM as, if they aren't willing to heal, there's no point in saving the spot for a divine. Sorcs can generally keep themselves up with scrolls or recon and make better killers to boot anyway.

[SirValentine]

Only problem is, the only options now are "healing domain" and "protection domain". As of now, it IS pigeon-holing....it'll be different, perhaps, when there's more options, though.

I was in the dev chat on Lama last night.

Sure, there'll be more options someday...just like there was going to be a Tier 3 Radiant Servant and the other 2 PrEs under the current enhancement system someday.

They can't live up to their previous promises, so they've completely backed off. They said each class will have "at least" 2 trees when the enhancement pass is released...and that adding other options for Cleric was something they wanted to look at "in the future".

Oh, and say goodbye to the little bit of offensive stuff Clerics had previously. No more nice Smiting line to up DP, no more option for Spell Pen, etc..

Though the real problem is that they didn't add 2 domains or create 2 PrEs...they RECLASSIFIED all the enhancements into 2 arbitrary "trees" named after domains, and with HUGE spent-in-tree prerequisites for higher tiers. So you can't actually take the enhancements you want if they are split across trees, because you simply don't have enough points.

[SirValentine]

This move by DDO scares me...

Depresses me.

I play only one character, a Cleric, three and a half years now. Admittedly, I haven't BEEN a Cleric lately, because I've been busy TRing, but I'm on my last class before Completionist.

I had so been looking forward to this enhancement pass. "All PrEs complete!", they promised. Well, I figured Exorcist (and maybe Warpriest) ought to have some good stuff, right? I had even made a thread detailing suggestions for divine PrEs.

Now...I don't feel like playing.

Clerics keep getting hit with the nerf-bat again and again. Few if any new options at all (except a HUGE variety of hjealbot junk), existing options removed, and no change to that anytime soon.

Why do the devs hate Clerics so much?

[SirValentine]

I won't be taking either personally ( if we have the choice when it goes live),

You won't have a choice. You CAN'T spend 80 action points just in your racial tree, and EVERYTHING is in a tree.

I think that healing in this game is already really freaking easy..A healing Domain and a Protection Domain did not need to be first focus...

[Gara]

It's fairly amusing to see how many people have such a short memory. When has anything on Lamannia ever been scraped and completely reworked to suit actual player feedback? I would bet money that ship sailed well before the patch even hit Lamannia.

Those 2 trees are likely going to be tweaked in minor ways and shoved onto live as is. You'll get promises that they're working on it and people will pray that third unknown tree makes it all better.

I sincerely hope I am wrong but Turbines history tells me different. Cleric has been a favorite class of mine for a long time. It's sad to see it lose versatility.

[moops]

TRing into an FVS if you want to be an offensive caster, is not really a solution, unless they expand the spell slots..particularly the level 6 ones...In current endgame content I use ALL 6 of the Lvl 6 spell slots, and even have to switch out one of them at times, so they would also need to let FVS change spells at shrines..or I guess make money off of us using astral shards to not wait 3 days.

Also, FVS have that nagging problem of having to split between Wis/Chr for DC/SP.

I played my FVS as an offensive caster for a year, and really preferred my cleric to the FVS. Sure if I only solo'd and only did quests where things could be Blade Barriered and Imploded, it could be a different story...But I prefer not to be a one trick pony. I ended up making my FVS into an intim tank...

As it stands, I guess Im gonna TR my Cleric into a Sorc, cuz I guess if I want to be an offensive caster, that is what I should do, and I already have a wizard.

On the bright side, maybe my FVS can be good at endgame tanking again ( yes she is fine EH but who really needs a tank eh?), and have more options to get her PRR up, crossing fingers.

[Redtalktree]

Sure its only on Lama, but when it hits live, am soooooooo outa love as a cleric. I wait before any rash thing like quiting, DP is the only offensive dot a cleric has and to be sidelined is kinda meh...Seriously I can for see a dearth of Clerics soon after the enhancement goes live, who would bother with being a healbot Cleric any more? if FVS is the offensive caster version, then that might be worth taking ,but don't count on it....

Oh well there is always NWN to consider.

[karl_k0ch]

3. So far there are no enhancement bonuses to offensive power.

The Protector has actually some things which help an offensive caster, and are not healing-specific:

Tier 1 Core Protector ability: "+1 Universal Spell Power for each action point spent in this tree."
Command
Efficient Metamagic, especially for Maximize

I agree that it's not much, but it's not nothing.

What kind of bonuses would you like to see in addition to the above?

Many of the Protector Bonuses are passive bonuses to Saves, AC, PRR for yourself, or other characters. As I see it, this makes also Battle Clerics more interesting, as the defensive bonuses help you when you are actively engaging mobs in melee.

It looks like Turbine is interested to promote Clerics as the defensive divine caster. It would be nice to have a more offensive tree as well. As it stands, it looks like there is room for a third tree. It would be nice to have a warpriest (or suitably named) tree which offers offensive bonuses for fighting or casting.

[PNellesen]

When has anything on Lamannia ever been scraped and completely reworked to suit actual player feedback? I would bet money that ship sailed well before the patch even hit Lamannia.

That's what's so depressing to me - Lammania has never been a real "beta" server, at least not in the time I've been playing. It's a "preview" server. Meaning - what we're seeing there now is likely to be, apart from some minor tweaks to fonts/icons, what we get on Live. I hope I'm wrong this time. I TR'd my caster cleric to wizard with the intention of then TRing back to Offensive Caster Cleric - I may just leave him as Wizard if things don't change (if I bother to play much at all after this goes out.)

Sigh.