New/Modified Skills

[Tid12]

Why are you assuming that we're not going to get enhancements? Do you somehow think that spell power enhancements won't exist anymore once these skills are introduced?

The spellcraft change is an increase. It's a source of Spell Power that doesn't currently exist. There may be a decrease in other areas, but from what I saw in the Ranger and Fighter trees, both of those are taking some hits as well.

Here

[HungarianRhapsody]

Here

Eliminating spell power enhancements seemed like such an astonishingly stupid idea that I assumed you were just going into full rant mode without actually finding out what was really going on. I stand corrected.

Just confirmed something similar to what you're saying on Llama. The idea that seemed so astonishingly stupid appears to be the current plan for Enhancements.

I like the Heal/Repair/Spellcraft changes. I'm not at all a fan of the changes to spell power in the Enhancement trees.

[SealedInSong]

Eliminating spell power enhancements seemed like such an astonishingly stupid idea that I assumed you were just going into full rant mode without actually finding out what was really going on. I stand corrected.

Just confirmed something similar to what you're saying on Llama. The idea that seemed so astonishingly stupid appears to be the current plan for Enhancements.

I like the Heal/Repair/Spellcraft changes. I'm not at all a fan of the changes to spell power in the Enhancement trees.

So am I to assume that, say, only water savants will be able to boost their cold spells through enhancements? The only way for me to make a cold-specced wizard is to wear a glaciation item like any other old arcane, but no enhancements for it?

I'd love some clarification on this.

[Archangel666]

This is probably in addition to what it already did.
So... yeah.

edit: that is if you don't use any destinies to help heal.

edit 2: Light monks

Dark Monks too possibly. Touch of Death is Negative Energy isn't it?

[HungarianRhapsody]

So am I to assume that, say, only water savants will be able to boost their cold spells through enhancements? The only way for me to make a cold-specced wizard is to wear a glaciation item like any other old arcane, but no enhancements for it?

I'd love some clarification on this.

I'd like that clarification, too. We'll have to wait, though, because the Wizard and Sorc enhancements don't exist yet. If it's similar to the Cleric trees, though, then one tree will get Universal spell power and the other tree will get one or two specific Spell Power choices at a higher rate.

Edit: just to explain how Cleric does it in the new enhancement system - one tree (Healing) gets 1 Light spell power per point spent in the tree and 1.5 spell power per point spent in the tree. The other tree (Protection) gives 1 Universal spell power per point spent in the tree. And Protection is a pretty terrible tree, so good luck getting spell power for any of your offensive spells aside from Divine Punishment.

[QuantumFX]

OK, I like the overall addition of Spell Power boosting skills. This makes INT less of a dump stat. However, I think making Spellcraft into the “One skill to power them all” is a mistake. It favors INT based casters too much. They will get around +10 Spell Power over the other casting classes and it’s not really that hard for a wizard to invest into.

If you wanted a better system you should do the following:

1. Implement alternate stat bonuses to skills. (ex. In P&P you can use your STR or CHA bonus to the Intimidate skill.)
2. Make sure that the spell power bonus from multiple skills do not stack.
3. Leave Heal and Repair as is.
4. Add Positive Spell Power to Perform.
5. Implement Knowledge skills:
   
   • Knowledge: Arcana (INT/CHA modifier; Class skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards.) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Force and Repair based spells.
   • Knowledge: Religion (INT/WIS modifier; Class skill for Clerics, Favored Souls and Paladins) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Positive, Negative and Light based spells. (Also, toss in the +2 Turn undead bonus from P&P)
   • Knowledge: Nature (INT/WIS Modifier; Class Skill for Rangers and Druids) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental, Sonic and Light based spells.
   • Knowledge: Elemental Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental and Sonic based spells.
   • Knowledge: Outer Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Light and Negative based spells.

This will encourage Wizards to spend their skill points on a wider variety of knowledge skills. While the other caster classes will focus on 1-2 different skills instead.

OK, onto something else:
“Incapacitation has been updated for all characters. Once you are Incapacitated and successfully stabilize, a twenty second timer begins. If you are still alive after twenty seconds and have not been healed in that time, you regain 20% of your maximum hitpoints and are no longer Incapacitated.”

They really need to make the above happen with a successful heal/repair check. Then it would be useful.

[Shadowaras]

I'd like that clarification, too. We'll have to wait, though, because the Wizard and Sorc enhancements don't exist yet. If it's similar to the Cleric trees, though, then one tree will get Universal spell power and the other tree will get one or two specific Spell Power choices at a higher rate.

Edit: just to explain how Cleric does it in the new enhancement system - one tree (Healing) gets 1 Light spell power per point spent in the tree and 1.5 spell power per point spent in the tree. The other tree (Protection) gives 1 Universal spell power per point spent in the tree. And Protection is a pretty terrible tree, so good luck getting spell power for any of your offensive spells aside from Divine Punishment.

I asked about offense on divines and dev answered that there is a tree missing so i assume dc/spell based divine tree will be added ... as for spell power in general seems to be instead of boosted through enchacement line ..to be added through skills +enchacments ..so for example u get 5% crit from magical training +3% crit positive from pacifism+1% crit from imp emp healing =9% and lets say 50 spell power positive from heal skill+60 max(tree points) +25 pacifism* =135 ..so 9% with 100% more dmg on crit and 135 spell power for positive spells but making the cleric healbot reducing his other spells -50 spell power and 5% crit ..

*about pacifism +varg said might be reviewed though

so expect same logik to apply to other caster types aswell arti get ~50 from spellcraft~50 universal from tree so goes to about 100 if u int based

there are some gaps in the system though which will need to looked into like for example spellcraft has int modifier so sorcs have problem ...alignement spells light and such goes into spellcraft so divines have also problem there ..negative spells go to heal skill so palemasters have issue and so on ..for the new system to be balanced those inconsistencies need to be fixed like boosting the spell power people will lose from them to respective tree 1.5 or 2 points of light spell power for example to divines instead of 1 per point and something similar to sorcs and pale masters ...

[Shadowaras]

OK, I like the overall addition of Spell Power boosting skills. This makes INT less of a dump stat. However, I think making Spellcraft into the “One skill to power them all” is a mistake. It favors INT based casters too much. They will get around +10 Spell Power over the other casting classes and it’s not really that hard for a wizard to invest into.

If you wanted a better system you should do the following:

1. Implement alternate stat bonuses to skills. (ex. In P&P you can use your STR or CHA bonus to the Intimidate skill.)
2. Make sure that the spell power bonus from multiple skills do not stack.
3. Leave Heal and Repair as is.
4. Add Positive Spell Power to Perform.
5. Implement Knowledge skills:
   
   • Knowledge: Arcana (INT/CHA modifier; Class skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards.) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Force and Repair based spells.
   • Knowledge: Religion (INT/WIS modifier; Class skill for Clerics, Favored Souls and Paladins) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Positive, Negative and Light based spells. (Also, toss in the +2 Turn undead bonus from P&P)
   • Knowledge: Nature (INT/WIS Modifier; Class Skill for Rangers and Druids) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental, Sonic and Light based spells.
   • Knowledge: Elemental Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental and Sonic based spells.
   • Knowledge: Outer Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Light and Negative based spells.

This will encourage Wizards to spend their skill points on a wider variety of knowledge skills. While the other caster classes will focus on 1-2 different skills instead.

OK, onto something else:
“Incapacitation has been updated for all characters. Once you are Incapacitated and successfully stabilize, a twenty second timer begins. If you are still alive after twenty seconds and have not been healed in that time, you regain 20% of your maximum hitpoints and are no longer Incapacitated.”

They really need to make the above happen with a successful heal/repair check. Then it would be useful.

/signed and +1 i like it m8 that should do it

[oweieie]

Dark Monks too possibly. Touch of Death is Negative Energy isn't it?

It is a proc, like flaming burst, not a spell. Things that boost spells don't work on it.

[Archangel666]

It is a proc, like flaming burst, not a spell. Things that boost spells don't work on it.

Ah yes. Still Imbue Slaying Arrows on Live does 500 Untyped damage while on Lamm its "250 boosted by crits", so who knows what they have planned for Monks. After seeing what they did to my Ranger I'm dreading it. Mine's Light.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ah yes. Still Imbue Slaying Arrows on Live does 500 Untyped damage while on Lamm its "250 boosted by crits", so who knows what they have planned for Monks. After seeing what they did to my Ranger I'm dreading it. Mine's Light.

Current slaying arrows do 500 damage on a vorpal all the time. The new one reads like a single attack with a 20 second cooldown that does 250 damage on any hit (not just on Vorpal). The elemental imbues read as stances, but the Slaying arrows don't.

Caveat: I can't reset my enhancements right now, so I may just be imagining things since I can't test it at the moment.

[Archangel666]

Current slaying arrows do 500 damage on a vorpal all the time. The new one reads like a single attack with a 20 second cooldown that does 250 damage on any hit (not just on Vorpal). The elemental imbues read as stances, but the Slaying arrows don't.

Caveat: I can't reset my enhancements right now, so I may just be imagining things since I can't test it at the moment.

You summed it up correctly. It's actually a pretty big nerf. On Live you can sometimes see 4-5 or more crits during a Manyshot and more either side of it if you get lucky rolls. On Lamm you can trigger it once every 20 seconds, which means you can trigger it once during Manyshot and that's it. It also costs SP to trigger each time on Lamm.

*Edit* Distracted myself there. My point was that I certainly wasn't expecting what they did to my Ranger, so don't rule it out on a Dark Monk.

[arkonas]

Um... am I missing something here? Did they remove cross-class skills? If the only way to boost necro potency for a wizard is a cross-class skill... that is remarkably stupid. And for sonic... is that even available to non-bards? Sorry wizards, you can't boost sonic spell power because unlike other spells... it's not like other spells. Uh... derp? And does "spell craft" work on untyped, i.e. disintegrate and horrid wilting, and also force, i.e. force missle, and also physical type, i.e. meteor swarm?

how about waiting until the rest is released before you jump the gun and feel foolish for making a comment. wiz/sorc aren't even out yet.

[chanw4]

I hope with the introduction of the spellcraft skill, they will introduce Epic Spell casting in the future!

[FestusHood]

You summed it up correctly. It's actually a pretty big nerf. On Live you can sometimes see 4-5 or more crits during a Manyshot and more either side of it if you get lucky rolls. On Lamm you can trigger it once every 20 seconds, which means you can trigger it once during Manyshot and that's it. It also costs SP to trigger each time on Lamm.

*Edit* Distracted myself there. My point was that I certainly wasn't expecting what they did to my Ranger, so don't rule it out on a Dark Monk.

But if it applies to all 4 shots of a manyshot salvo you would get all your procs right there. I like the idea of having control of when it happens personally.

Edit: The deepwood tree appears to have similar special effect shots that don't cost any sp. I think it would be a good idea if they gave spell point bonuses to the arcane archer tree, maybe 50 for each core ability you have or something.

[RedHost]

It seems the devs have decided to Make Heal/Repair useful as well as adding a new skill Spellcraft and augmenting the perform skill

Spellcraft - Increases Spell Power 1:1 except for Postive, Negative, Rust/Repair or Sonic we can't see wizard or Sorc but I'm guessing this replaces the current spellpower enhancements

Heal - Increase positive/negative energy spell power guess I'm training my PM in this.

Repair - Increase Repair/Rust Spellpower

Perform - Increases Sonic Spell Power

This isn't 'making them useful'. It is making them into a skill tax. Which in turn becomes an attribute: Intelligence tax.

Sucks for anyone who does not have easy access to +4 tomes.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd much rather see Heal and Repair gain some active uses that are worthwhile. Some months ago I proposed adding an ability to each that would allow a character with ranks to perform some healing actions. Basically, a few ranks would allow you to heal yourself or someone else for a small amount a number of times/rest, with increasing power with increased ranks, and the total effect being based on your total modifier. Essentially, it would give characters a new healing option, limited by your investment of skill points, tied to your ability scores and gear, and further limited in uses/rest. At the high end, characters would be able to heal themselves with the equivalent power of a Heal spell a few times per rest.

Spellcraft looks AWFUL right now. If it were given some other use, besides just being a new tax on character power, I might not feel so offended at its inclusion, but that doesn't appear to be the case right now.

These changes serve to emphasize the weaknesses of the D&D 3.5 skill system, in that many characters have far too few skill points per level (cleric, fighter, paladin, sorcerer, wizard), and the difference between a class skill and a cross-class skill is too severe. Warforged and Palemasters were roughly fairly equal in their ability to heal themselves, with WF having bigger, faster self-heals, and the ability to receive party healing, while PMs had largely cheaper self-healing, and passive healing, which has its own value. With this change, WF will be much better off, particularly with the addition of Repair Amplification.

Bards still have too few spells of note for the change to Perform to be truly relevant, and it moves the few semi-useful Sonic spells even further along the spectrum to being useless for everyone else.

[HatsuharuZ]

I hope that clerics and paladins will get an extra skill point or two, if these skill changes go live.

[BoolZ]

Just so, so, wrong it has to be a deliberate and targeted nerf to Warforged Sorcs.

This is one change Turbine really should have kept under wraps until they were ready to release much more than a 'pre-alpha' test. Just simple answers really.

Like with the apparent loss of enhancement lines will we still get Spell Power increasing items or can I swap out my 120 Impulse for a +20 Spellcraft skill item?

If my 120 Impulse item is still usable will it stack with the Spellcraft skill item?

How will potency items play in?

Where will I find the 4 extra build points to raise my INT high enough to cover the new Repair and Spellcraft skill necessities?

Do I give up Balance for Repair or do I give up Balance for Spellcraft?

Where can I fit in a +8, exceptional, and insight bonus INT items?

How can anyone possibly see this change as having any possible chance at increasing build diversity? Sorcs are damage, damage comes from Spell Power. If there's a way to increase Spell Power that's what a Sorc does. So if Spell Craft stacks with or replaces my Glaciation enhancements/items bottom line is I max out Spell Craft. So I'll ditch the 11 ranks of Balance for Spell Craft, I'll put away my healing amp items for INT items, and we'll all be different.

Or maybe I'll tr into human for the skill boost enhancement, feat for Skill Focus: Spell Craft, and extra skill point a level. Won't need repair anymore, and that might get my Spell Craft modifier up closer to a Wizards or Arty's.

Just an astoundingly stupid call to release just a couple lines of text right now. They should have held off until they could at least give us a more complete section in the release notes.

[oradafu]

I hope that clerics and paladins will get an extra skill point or two, if these skill changes go live.

If clerics and paladins don't get more skill points, I'm hoping the Devs are going to give the various Lore feats some Spell Power. Religious Lore, Wilderness Lore and Arcane Lore will actually mean something as players level up. Currently, they are only good for a handful of things near and post-epic, since the Devs aren't revamping old quests to incorporate these feats.

And yes, that would mean that Bards would get a bit of a double dip, since they get both Religious and Arcane Lore. Since they were given the shaft by not being included in the Magical Training classes, this would be a nice perk for them.