New/Modified Skills

[HungarianRhapsody]

I have no problem at all with the additions to these skills. You SHOULD have to make choices about where your attributes go, and giving desirability for Int is only a positive to me. Anything that screws min-maxxers is a good thing.

Apparently, Wizards, Rangers and Bards are not min-maxxers while Clerics, FvS, Sorcs, and Paladins are. Thanks for the tip!

[Dilbon]

If this new system had been in the game from the start, nobody would complain.

[HungarianRhapsody]

If this new system had been in the game from the start, nobody would complain.

That may be true. It's also true that if they dropped those skills later on and added more spell power to enhancements to make up for it, all of the low-skill-point characters would rejoice.

[HatsuharuZ]

In the case of Clerics, this proposed skill change concerns me. In order to amp their spells, clerics would have to put points into both Heal and Spellcraft. IIRC, the only sonic spell on the divine spell list is Sound Burst, so the sonic spellpower from Perform wouldn't matter much. The thing is, Clerics only have two skill points per level. Thus, they would have to make some hard choices as to which skills/spellpower they want to put points into.

Could classes with low skill points (except wizards, who have all the skill points they need with their high int) be given an extra skill point per level?

Question: I haven't been able to log onto Lammania yet, but on the forums I've only seen two cleric class enhancement trees. Are they the only ones that clerics have access to? I hope not...

[DeafeningWhisper]

You really think this screws min/maxxers? Well first, maybe I should just give up, I'm failing to see the benefit of giving anything else you say any sort of validity given your 'screw anyone not playing my way' stance. But just because I don't know any better.

On a 36pt build my Sorc would put

16pts into CHA to get to 16
8pts into CON to get to 17

That would leave me with 12pts to spare.

I could have put them in STR for a bit of melee. 10pts would get me to 16STR, Masters Touch a beater, and I'm suddenly very decent early on. Later the STR helps keep me from encumbered. Or maybe I put those points into DEX for a touch of AC early then Balance later. Choices.

But now it'll be 10pts into INT. Always. Because past the vale, for me maybe others are different, it's all about spell damage. Those 10pts will get me to 16INT, and after tomes (+4) and gear (+8 from item, exception 1, and insight 3) INT will be at 32. That's +11 modifier, 23 ranks into Spell Craft (Hey I found my INT to get 11 ranks of Repair!), plus say a +15 Spell Craft item (if they'll exist) and I'm sitting at a +49 Spell Craft bonus at lvl20 and +54 at lvl25. As long as I can boost my Polar Rays comparable to live from the still hidden Savant PRE tree, then that's just free damage. A decent bit of it too! And all I have to do is give up everything but spell damage on my Sorc... choices.

This wont punish a min/maxxed WF Sorc. It'll reward them, and punish anyone not pigeon holed into the same build and gear layout.

I echo what was just said, my bardcher is bard 16 rogue 2 ranger 2, to do decent damage/traps/songs/have sp and okay hps he needs right now a delicate balance of: con, dex, str, int and cha.

With the new changes I'll need to dump something by 2 or 4 points to get the extra needed int to have Heal trained to gain back a bit of the devotion hit I'll take from it been removed from the enhancement tree.


My cleric/arty requires int for traps, con to survive, wis to hit/sp, cha for turns, a bit of dex for feats and to fit the new skills and remain a decent healer I would need to drop cha, wis or con by 4 or 8 points, turning the build from "decent dps, good survivability and good healer" to "crappy dps, glass healbot".


Min-Maxers will simply not bother with the new skill on classes with low skill points, it's those fun builds that "shouldn't work, yet somehow are kick-ass and fun" that will die off...

[Tid12]

snip

I will echo what I just said a couple of answer above: it's no matter of min-maxer. Matuse, the one that said it, has a wizard and wants the new toy to benefit him and his class more than Sorcerer. It's as simple as that

Ignore his reply.

I can see that pretty much everyone here agreed that this spell should be changed somehow because right now, it's stupidly dumb how it favorites certains classes and how it is so so so bad for others.

[Sqrlmonger]

That’s why our GM allows us to do lesser reincarnations. It’s already been stated that the Free lesser Reincarnation mechanic is getting reset once this goes live. In fact, I already used my free lesser reincarnation on Lammaland on a character that had already used his.

So then.....not like PnP at all?

[SEMPER]

With the skill points being needed for additional spell power IMO they need to make perform a skill that can be taken without splashing bard there are other classes that utilize sonic damage on there builds ...

[Matuse]

It's because of people like you that we can't have nice things. Instead of suggesting to have it use the highest from INT, WIS or CHA to appeal to EVERYONE, you prefer to have the new toy just for you.

Becase we all know you have a Wiz

I TR'd my Wiz 2 weeks ago. Don't care for the class.

Apparently, Wizards, Rangers and Bards are not min-maxxers while Clerics, FvS, Sorcs, and Paladins are. Thanks for the tip!

Do wizards and high skill point classes get the most benefit? Yes. Is build diversity a good thing? Also yes.

All in all, you're talking about -at most- a 23 point swing. Most times, you're not even going to notice the difference in how hard your spells land.

My primary interest is in divines, and they get it worse than anyone, since they now have Spellcraft AND Heal to add to the repertoire. Big deal. I'll adjust. Neither skill will likely end up at max ranks, but because I favor screwing min-maxxers, I also don't care that neither skill will end up at max ranks.

[Indoran]

Yet another dumb unneeded change by the devs. Here's is a question...how the H@ll am I going to get higher sonic spell power for my druid's reaving roar when I can't even put into perform? Dumb, impulsive idea Turbine...

I think there are better ways to ask for a change to an alpha version... Let's try:

Hi devs! I have a druid with sonic spells... can I get something instead of perform to improve his spells

[SEMPER]

I think there are better ways to ask for a change to an alpha version... Let's try:

Hi devs! I have a druid with sonic spells... can I get something instead of perform to improve his spells

He obviously felt his way was fine .... and you telling him how to vent is even funnier

[QuantumFX]

So then.....not like PnP at all?

Actually, it’s just like P&P. You, obviously, were never around for the switch from 2nd edition to 3rd.

[Khatzhas]

Thus, they would have to make some hard choices as to which skills/spellpower they want to put points into.

As long as the class as a whole stays balanced against others, choices in how to build your character out of it are a good thing.

Question: I haven't been able to log onto Lammania yet, but on the forums I've only seen two cleric class enhancement trees. Are they the only ones that clerics have access to? I hope not...

Currently, yes.
Unfortunately.

He obviously felt his way was fine .... and you telling him how to vent is even funnier

I think that the idea was to help him by giving advice on how to form a constructive criticism that will be taken more seriously than throwing insults and venting would.

[danzig138]

I favor screwing min-maxxers

An yet I don't see you lobbying for things that would actually reduce min-maxing in the game. Odd, that.

[SEMPER]

I think that the idea was to help him by giving advice on how to form a constructive criticism that will be taken more seriously than throwing insults and venting would.

I understood his point but sometimes being all nice just doesn't make you feel better now does it ?