New/Modified Skills

[Silverhilt-2]

You could take a level of Cleric or Bard to pick up those skills as class skills.

I'm not saying that's a good idea, but it is possible.

Heal is not a class skill for Bards. Hope they will revise that, but I doubt it 8(

[Yamato-San]

I think the new skill 'spellcraft' is a terrible idea.
On the one hand, the devs try to remove the need for the mandatory feat 'toughness",
on the other hand a new mandory skill for all arcane caster is introduced. :-(

If the new designed spell system requires a skill based spellpower system, so do it simple:
Just use the skill 'concentration' for it (maybe without item enhancements, just the base score) and be done with it.

A new skill will force all arcanes to do at least a lesser reincarnation, please save us these tedious hours of lost gameplay.

[Tid12]

I think the new skill 'spellcraft' is a terrible idea.
On the one hand, the devs try to remove the need for the mandatory feat 'toughness",
on the other hand a new mandory skill for all arcane caster is introduced. :-(

If the new designed spell system requires a skill based spellpower system, so do it simple:
Just use the skill 'concentration' for it (maybe without item enhancements, just the base score) an be done with it.

A new skill will force all arcanes to do at least a lesser reincarnation, please save us these tedious hours of lost gameplay.

It's not only a mandatory skill, it's also based on INT.

Concentration would be as bad as Spellcraft. What they need to do is use the highest modifier of INT, CHA or WIS. This way, noone will be left behind.

They also need to make Heal and Perform a class skill for every arcane and Divine. If they don't do both things, this will be the worst idea (togheter with the 3 max trees) of this whole system.

[oweieie]

You summed it up correctly. It's actually a pretty big nerf. On Live you can sometimes see 4-5 or more crits during a Manyshot and more either side of it if you get lucky rolls. On Lamm you can trigger it once every 20 seconds, which means you can trigger it once during Manyshot and that's it. It also costs SP to trigger each time on Lamm.

*Edit* Distracted myself there. My point was that I certainly wasn't expecting what they did to my Ranger, so don't rule it out on a Dark Monk.

It costs like a bazillion EP to get slaying arrows and all you get out of it really is an extra d6 burst effect. AA was already of somewhat questionable worth, if they nerf slaying arrow I can't see the point of the prestige at all.

[Matuse]

Where can I fit in a +8, exceptional, and insight bonus INT items?

The better question is: Why would you want to?

+8 +1 +3 = +12, which is +6 to the Spellcraft skill.

So that's +6 spellpower. Would you even notice if that was present or not? We haven't seen the arcane trees yet, but if you have 200 spellpower now, then this is a difference of 194 vs 200. Can you seriously tell me that you would ever actually notice that small of a variation?

[Sqrlmonger]

OK, I like the overall addition of Spell Power boosting skills. This makes INT less of a dump stat. However, I think making Spellcraft into the “One skill to power them all” is a mistake. It favors INT based casters too much. They will get around +10 Spell Power over the other casting classes and it’s not really that hard for a wizard to invest into.

If you wanted a better system you should do the following:

1. Implement alternate stat bonuses to skills. (ex. In P&P you can use your STR or CHA bonus to the Intimidate skill.)
2. Make sure that the spell power bonus from multiple skills do not stack.
3. Leave Heal and Repair as is.
4. Add Positive Spell Power to Perform.
5. Implement Knowledge skills:
   
   • Knowledge: Arcana (INT/CHA modifier; Class skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards.) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Force and Repair based spells.
   • Knowledge: Religion (INT/WIS modifier; Class skill for Clerics, Favored Souls and Paladins) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Positive, Negative and Light based spells. (Also, toss in the +2 Turn undead bonus from P&P)
   • Knowledge: Nature (INT/WIS Modifier; Class Skill for Rangers and Druids) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental, Sonic and Light based spells.
   • Knowledge: Elemental Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Elemental and Sonic based spells.
   • Knowledge: Outer Planes (INT/CHA modifier; Class Skill for Artificers, Sorcerors and Wizards) Provides a Spell Power bonus to Alignment, Light and Negative based spells.

This will encourage Wizards to spend their skill points on a wider variety of knowledge skills. While the other caster classes will focus on 1-2 different skills instead.

OK, onto something else:
“Incapacitation has been updated for all characters. Once you are Incapacitated and successfully stabilize, a twenty second timer begins. If you are still alive after twenty seconds and have not been healed in that time, you regain 20% of your maximum hitpoints and are no longer Incapacitated.”

They really need to make the above happen with a successful heal/repair check. Then it would be useful.

Flavor wise I'm totally on board....

Unfortunately, the realities of how tight skill points already are in most builds - including wizards - make this a terrible approach that leaves almost everyone out in the cold trying to find a way back to where they already were in spellpower and being forced to give up quite a bit to get there.

A guildy of mine said this very well:

There is a difference between making certain skills useful again, and making them useless but required.

[Missing_Minds]

Flavor wise I'm totally on board....

Unfortunately, the realities of how tight skill points already are in most builds - including wizards - make this a terrible approach that leaves almost everyone out in the cold trying to find a way back to where they already were in spellpower and being forced to give up quite a bit to get there.

A guildy of mine said this very well:

There is a difference between making certain skills useful again, and making them useless but required.

You mean just like it is in PnP to get into certain PrCs? It would be a step to make it closer to 3.x rules, honestly, where we never had enough skill points to do everything we wanted normally.

So video game (lets face it, that is what DDO is) Fun, or PnP hard decissions.

Also, in PnP, a GM can change the world ont he fly when things don't work right for skills. In a video game, there is no GM to do that. The character got changed, but the world didn't get changed to fit the character, which is what you have to do in a video game.

[BoolZ]

The better question is: Why would you want to?

+8 +1 +3 = +12, which is +6 to the Spellcraft skill.

So that's +6 spellpower. Would you even notice if that was present or not? We haven't seen the arcane trees yet, but if you have 200 spellpower now, then this is a difference of 194 vs 200. Can you seriously tell me that you would ever actually notice that small of a variation?

That's like 3%. It's like a caster stick giving 114 or 120.

Would I notice it? Probably not. Will stuff die faster with it? Yes.

Particularly with Repair. I don't slot a repair item, I counted on Potency items. Repair spells get boosted by the Repair skill, and last I saw the enhancement line was gone. So now I need the skill which is INT based. I was fine with 80 potency. Not a lot, but enough, but 6 of 80 is like 13 percent.

[anivaj]

Yet another dumb unneeded change by the devs. Here's is a question...how the H@ll am I going to get higher sonic spell power for my druid's reaving roar when I can't even put into perform? Dumb, impulsive idea Turbine...

[DeafeningWhisper]

Yet another dumb unneeded change by the devs. Here's is a question...how the H@ll am I going to get higher sonic spell power for my druid's reaving roar when I can't even put into perform? Dumb, impulsive idea Turbine...

My pure cleric wonders which it will dump: umd, concentration, con, wis or cha to fit Heal... Hurray for more "choices".

[oweieie]

My pure cleric wonders which it will dump: umd, concentration, con, wis or cha to fit Heal... Hurray for more "choices".

Gotta love how being better at applying bandages somehow makes you better at channeling positive energy from another plane.

[ddobard1]

spellcraft another skill

heal and repair useful

strengthen perform

hoping these are good news

[Missing_Minds]

Gotta love how being better at applying bandages somehow makes you better at channeling positive energy from another plane.

You now know how to better direct the positive energy to fix exactly what you are working on rather than a generic bath.

[Matuse]

I have no problem at all with the additions to these skills. You SHOULD have to make choices about where your attributes go, and giving desirability for Int is only a positive to me. Anything that screws min-maxxers is a good thing.

[Tid12]

Anything that screws min-maxxers is a good thing.

It's because of people like you that we can't have nice things. Instead of suggesting to have it use the highest from INT, WIS or CHA to appeal to EVERYONE, you prefer to have the new toy just for you.

Becase we all know you have a Wiz

Desirability for Int? What's that? Why would I feel the desidery to have Int on bard? Or on a Sorc? Or any other caster in game? lol.

Should we make a new skill that adds the HP by 1 with WIS Mod just to "give desirability to Wis" ? I can only laugh at that response.

[mystafyi]

Anything that screws min-maxxers is a good thing.

right, because turbine doesnt need their revenue to keep the game you love playing running?

[Sqrlmonger]

You mean just like it is in PnP to get into certain PrCs? It would be a step to make it closer to 3.x rules, honestly, where we never had enough skill points to do everything we wanted normally.

So video game (lets face it, that is what DDO is) Fun, or PnP hard decissions.

Also, in PnP, a GM can change the world ont he fly when things don't work right for skills. In a video game, there is no GM to do that. The character got changed, but the world didn't get changed to fit the character, which is what you have to do in a video game.

I'm not sure what you mean by "like it is in PnP"...I've never played a PnP game where the GM massively altered how my class worked in the middle of the game by adding a half dozen skills of which I needed at least 3 to retain the casting capabilities I already had but at the cost of giving up other capabilities I already had.

As far as hard choices go, creating a PM already involves a number of hard choices, so lets not pretend this is an issue of easy choices being made hard. This is hard choices being made no win.

I don't know, maybe some people are looking for that. Doesn't sound like my cup of tea. I prefer hard choices to be rewarded with fully functional builds.

[QuantumFX]

It's not only a mandatory skill, it's also based on INT.

Concentration would be as bad as Spellcraft. What they need to do is use the highest modifier of INT, CHA or WIS. This way, noone will be left behind.

They also need to make Heal and Perform a class skill for every arcane and Divine. If they don't do both things, this will be the worst idea (togheter with the 3 max trees) of this whole system.

Or just offer more choices to spread the bonuses around.

I'm not sure what you mean by "like it is in PnP"...I've never played a PnP game where the GM massively altered how my class worked in the middle of the game by adding a half dozen skills of which I needed at least 3 to retain the casting capabilities I already had but at the cost of giving up other capabilities I already had.

That’s why our GM allows us to do lesser reincarnations. It’s already been stated that the Free lesser Reincarnation mechanic is getting reset once this goes live. In fact, I already used my free lesser reincarnation on Lammaland on a character that had already used his.

[Ganolyn]

I can't say as I really like this idea. With the exception of maybe opening up some classes to skills that are now cross-class, I think they should leave skills alone.

[BoolZ]

I have no problem at all with the additions to these skills. You SHOULD have to make choices about where your attributes go, and giving desirability for Int is only a positive to me. Anything that screws min-maxxers is a good thing.

You really think this screws min/maxxers? Well first, maybe I should just give up, I'm failing to see the benefit of giving anything else you say any sort of validity given your 'screw anyone not playing my way' stance. But just because I don't know any better.

On a 36pt build my Sorc would put

16pts into CHA to get to 16
8pts into CON to get to 17

That would leave me with 12pts to spare.

I could have put them in STR for a bit of melee. 10pts would get me to 16STR, Masters Touch a beater, and I'm suddenly very decent early on. Later the STR helps keep me from encumbered. Or maybe I put those points into DEX for a touch of AC early then Balance later. Choices.

But now it'll be 10pts into INT. Always. Because past the vale, for me maybe others are different, it's all about spell damage. Those 10pts will get me to 16INT, and after tomes (+4) and gear (+8 from item, exception 1, and insight 3) INT will be at 32. That's +11 modifier, 23 ranks into Spell Craft (Hey I found my INT to get 11 ranks of Repair!), plus say a +15 Spell Craft item (if they'll exist) and I'm sitting at a +49 Spell Craft bonus at lvl20 and +54 at lvl25. As long as I can boost my Polar Rays comparable to live from the still hidden Savant PRE tree, then that's just free damage. A decent bit of it too! And all I have to do is give up everything but spell damage on my Sorc... choices.

This wont punish a min/maxxed WF Sorc. It'll reward them, and punish anyone not pigeon holed into the same build and gear layout.