The Official Fighter Enhancements Discussion Thread!

[HatsuharuZ]

I don't see descriptions on the SD enhancements after tier 1 one Hungarian's list..

[Gratch]

Well that's still pretty good, even though we still have to take the 2 weapon foci. Have those feats been updated by any chance, or are they still entirely useless with their entirely insignificant +1 to hit per feat?

Thanks in advance, I don't get off work til late to check this myself.

Nope.. the devs still have littered +1 attacks both in feats and enhancements everywhere. (+1 AC's and now +5 HP's too). All of which fits into the bowl of "differences too small even stacked together to affect endgame". I thought the enhancement sweep would be their time to cleanup these adjustments to go with the redone to-hit/AC scaled system. Though they did bump the top end of some attack boosts to +8 in the new enhancements.

[Cyr]

Last tier on ki weapon means 42 AP min spent to have it in the kensai tree. That leaves 38 AP for other stuff on a build which presumably is actually a monk splash build...where you are not going to be able to purchase the top tier 'autogrant' row of kensai due to having a splash/deep multi-class build.

Losing out on monk class levels is a big hit. Losing out on top stuff from any monk tree and being very limited on class AP or else being super limited on your monk tree/trees is going to just not be a good choice.

Of course it also has the critical problem present with other similar abilities modifying how your toon applies ability scores to weapons which is that it is not fun to play a build which is basically missing a critical piece until it has been leveled up a good amount.

[Feithlin]

Kensei
"Autogrant" row:
Weapon Mastery (Pick your specialization weapon group called Focus weapons)
Spiritual Bond (Fighter level 3) (Each time you make a Vorpal hit, gain a +1 Insight bonus to the enhancement bonus of your weapon (the "plus). You get this up to the number of times that you have Core Abilities in Kensei. These wear off one per 10 seconds. This is the same bonus as the Weapon Meditation ability. The highest this stack can go is +10.)

Interesting ability that make you more effective over time during long fights.

Strike With No Thought (Fighter level 6) (1% Doublestrike with your specialized weapon group. This goes to 2/3/4% Doublestrike as you gain more Kensei Core Abilities.)

Ok.

Power Surge (Fighter level 12) (action boost: +8 Psionic bonus to Strength for 60 seconds. +2 Ki per hit if you can generate Ki.)

Ok. Not sure what it stays as a psionic bonus though.

One Cut (Fighter level 18) (Focus action boost: You Focused weapons (the specialized weapon group) gains the Vorpal trait for 60 seconds)

Very nice and fits well with the idea of an weapon expert.

Alacrity (Fighter level 20) (+10% doublestrike or +bonus to attack rate with ranged weapons)

Tier 1:
Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage with your group)

It's nice that it appears before level 6.

Exotic Weapon Mastery (Adds Khopesh or DAxe or Repeater, etc. to the appropriate group)

Good. More generally, it's a good thing the group has been extended to a range of different weapons so a kensei is not condemned to a single one, because that made it difficult to handle with the various new weapon loots.

Attack Boost (Action Boost: +4/6/8 To Hit for 20 seconds)

Ok, but you could as well change it to +4/8/12 imo.

Reed in the Wind (special attack: 30 second cooldown. +1W attack. Gain +3/6/9% Dodge for 6 seconds.)

Cooldown really seems too long: +1W every 30 s. is rather underwhelming, and the dodge benefit is hardly worth it with a duration of only 6 sec. Consider droping it to 12 sec. or increase dodge bonus to 15 sec.

Tier 2:
Tactics (+1/2/3 to the DC of your Tactical abilities)

It seems quite underwhelming considering 1) the absence of specialized DC bonuses to tactics feats, 2) the difficulty to land tactical feats on eE. At 1st glance, it really looks like a killing blow to tactical feats...


Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage for one handed weapons. +1 To Hit/+2 damage for two handed weapons)

As expected.

Improved Dodge (+1/2/3% Dodge when wearing Light or no armor)

A nice addition. It's good to see some kind of defense added.

Weapon Meditation (Meditate for a while. Every 6/4/2 seconds, add +1 stacking up to +10 Insight bonus to the Enhancement bonus of the weapon. That drops by 1 every 10 seconds until it runs out. You can also get this same kind of bonus from Vorpal hits from the Spirital Bond Core Ability.)

It's a nice idea to give room to a preparation for an important fight.

Ascetic Training (+1 Concentration and your choice of +1/2/3 Reflex and +1/2/3 Dodge cap *or* +1/2/3 Fort and +5/10/15 HP *or* +1/2/3Will save and +0/0/1 passive Ki regeneration)

Nice, all three are interesting.

Tier 3:
Critical Accuracy (+1/2/3 to confirm critical hits)

This one is pretty ridiculous. Seriously, +3 to hit is next to nothing with the actual to-hit system, and this is only to confirm criticals! You can be sure no one will ever take it. If you really feel the need to separate bonus to critical hits and bonus to critical damage, at least make it something like: +4/+8/automatically confirmed.

Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and +1 Damage - no mention of +2 Damage for two handed weapons)

Nice continuation of the specialization bonus.

Improved Mobility (+1/2/3 Max Dex bonus and -1/2/3 Armor Check penalty in light armor)

Nice defensive addition, in the same order as Improved dodge.

Shattering Strike (Focus Melee Attack: +1/2/3 W attack. On damage: Target loses 5/10/15% fortification for 10 seconds. DC = 10 + half Fighter level + Wis mod)

Is this DC a joke? Seriously? Wis mod? I'm not against some affinity between kensei and monks, but an enhancement just for them seems out of place. And even, the DC is still a joke: 10 + 10 (or 12 if Epic level count as Fighter) + 16 (42 wis = 14 base + 4 tome + 8 item + 3 insight + 1 exc. + 2 ship) + 10 item (if shatter items count) = a generous 46. It will never land on eH GH or above.
I propose: Fort DC = 10 + Fighter levels (this is a Fighter PrE, not an ED!) + Str or Wis mod (whichever is higher). Shatter item add to the DC.
What's the cooldown?

+Str/Dex/Wis

Tier 4:
Critical Damage (+1/2/3 damage before multiplier on critical hits)

As a tier 4 ability, +2/+4/+6 would be better imo. At least, the bonus should be a seeker bonus, adding both to to-hit and to damage.

Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage for one handed weapons. +1 To Hit/+2 damage for two handed weapons)

Same as before.

+Str/Dex/Wis

Tier 5:
A Good Death (Focused Melee Attack: melee attack with +1 critical threat range. If target is under 20% HP, they take 500 damage.*)

Not sure how it works since I'm not on Lamma, but from description it only looks like a weak Exalted Smite... The only benefit would be to finish a foe. The only problem is that, in epic, given the never ending HP inflation, 500 damage wouldn't suffice even if the monster was at 5% HP...
This ability should be completely reworked imo.

Keen Edge (+1 Critical Threat rage for your Focus weapons

As expected.

One With The Blade (Your Focus weapons are considered centered for Ki stuff)

This one is nice and makes splashing monk levels interesting. Although, it's a bit surprising to see it at tier 5, which means you can't have more than 2 monk levels. Maybe this should appear at tier 3, for some interesting F12/M6/*2 builds?

Deadly Strike (Focused Melee Attack: make an attack that is automatically a critical threat. On Vorpal, do 500 extra damage.

Better than A Good Death. It's a good ability, tactically speaking, to be able to land a critical when you want at some point.

The most noticeable absence is the Haste Boost!
This, combined with the reduced bonus to DC (now +3 when you could have up to +6 on a non dwarf) are MAJOR hits to kensei.
It becomes even worse when we consider that many feat requirements have disappeared from most PrE, which means any class will be able to take all (or almost all) of the interesting feats, which reduces to nothing the benefit of being fighter.

Now I suppose (I hope?) the other bonuses to DC will come with the PDK PrE though, so we'll see when it will come out. However, that means the enhancement pass shouldn't come live without this PrE.

I would have liked some more creative enhancements. So I will give some propositions. The idea is to allow the Kensei to obtain additional benefits from existing offensive/tactical feats/stances. Since English isn't my native language, there are probably better names than the one I have chosen.

Tier 1: Patient Strike (replaces Reed in the Wind)
Requires: Combat Expertise
The kensei has learned to use defense as a tool to force his enemy to show his weakness. By spending time to study his opponent, the kensei can deliver a strong blow at the right moment.
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Combat Expertise stance): + <Number of Kensei Core abilities> W; bypass <Number of Kensei Core abilities> * 5% fortification.

Tier 2: Improved Power Attack
Requires: Power Attack
The kensei has learned to use his strength to all its advantage with his weapons of choice. When using his Focus weapons, the kensei increases the bonus to damage from Power attack by an additional +1/+2/+3 (and increases the to-hit penalty by an additional -1/-2/-3).

Tier 3: Shattering Strike (replaces existing enhancement)
Requires: Improved Sunder
When using Improved Sunder with his Focus weapons, the attack adds +1/2/3W and reduces fortification by -10%/-15%/-20%.

Tier 3: Precise Strike (replaces critical accuracy; make Critical damage work like a Seeker bonus)
Requires: Precision
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Precision stance): +1W and +1 Critical multiplier.

Tier 4: Weakening Strike
Requires: Slicing Blow
The kensei has learned to use his weapons of choice to weaken his opponents over time. When you use your Focus weapons, you inflict a bleeding wound on a confirmed critical, inflicting 2d6 damage every 2 seconds during 10 seconds. If you score a new critical before the end of the bleeding strike, the countdown resets.

Tier 5: Staggering Strike (replaces A Good Death)
Requires: Improved Trip
The kensei has learned to take full advantage against a prone opponent.
When using your Focus weapons, you treat tripped opponents as if they were helpless.

[SealedInSong]

The most noticeable absence is the Haste Boost!
This, combined with the reduced bonus to DC (now +3 when you could have up to +6 on a non dwarf) are MAJOR hits to kensei...(snip)

Good commentary

[Opensezame]

@.@

That. Wow. Is. Woah. the very first time. ! That I've been almost speechless on the forums.

That is great. Well-done, devs.

With this... they are going to have to make some massive improvements on why it would be worth using handwraps as a monk.

[Jitty]

The Stalwart defender tree forces you to specialize too much. Currently on live if you choose the stalwart defender pre, there are still many general fighter type enhancements available. With the tree the way it is on lamania, it screams "I am a tank". It should be pitched more like "I am a fighter that can tank". Fighters, up until now, have been a very versatile class with flexabillity to do many things. This tree takes a lot of that versitility away. The investment needed in this tree to get the benifits of sd of the current live servers makes significant investment in any other tree (eg kensi which would get a bit of the flexibility back) to difficult.

I can only estimate since the live version of my sd has a lot of different gear than the lamania one. That being said, I have spent 54 points in that tree and have got roughly the same benefits from the pretige that I get from the live server version of SD (including its pre-reqs). And as said above, I have lost a lot of flexability. I can't stay in stance to heal myself with scrolls, I no longer have fighter haste boost, I can't buff myself while in stance, I can't raise my tactical feat dcs, I can't get as much strength, and since some strength and con bonuses are linked to having a weapon and a shield rather than a choice of staying in stance, when using a two handed weapon, my strengh (and therefore damage) drops even lower.
To get improved intimidate, I also get increased threat generation. In the old system, I could drop stance if i didn't want to generate additional threat, now I can't get rid of all the additional threat generation even if I drop stance. The above points to one thing for me. Taking choice out of it. Using the tree tells me what to do and what it says is use a sword and shield and don't do anything creative.

When I balance my investments more and use kensi to increase dps (19 points kensi and 37 points SD), the sacrifice in defence is high. Comparing this spit to the live version of my SD, I do less damage, have about 50 fewer hitpoints, have lower ac by about 25 points, lower threat generation that I can't turn off and on completely and higher dodge by 3%

The non-situational benefits of this system over live to a character with 18 levels of fighter amount to higher saves, slightly higher armor class and a bonus to fortification. All good things, but nowhere near a neutral trade in power or flexiblility.


The graphics and system design are very easy to understand and use.

[maddmatt70]

Kensei


For those who don't have a Llama client up. I'll type up more details on each enhancement shortly. Note that you don't automatically get the Core Abilities enhancements. You have to pay after the first one.


"Autogrant" row:
Weapon Mastery (Pick your specialization weapon group called Focus weapons)
Spiritual Bond (Fighter level 3) (Each time you make a Vorpal hit, gain a +1 Insight bonus to the enhancement bonus of your weapon (the "plus). You get this up to the number of times that you have Core Abilities in Kensei. These wear off one per 10 seconds. This is the same bonus as the Weapon Meditation ability. The highest this stack can go is +10.)
Strike With No Thought (Fighter level 6) (1% Doublestrike with your specialized weapon group. This goes to 2/3/4% Doublestrike as you gain more Kensei Core Abilities.)
Power Surge (Fighter level 12) (action boost: +8 Psionic bonus to Strength for 60 seconds. +2 Ki per hit if you can generate Ki.)
One Cut (Fighter level 18) (Focus action boost: You Focused weapons (the specialized weapon group) gains the Vorpal trait for 60 seconds)
Alacrity (Fighter level 20) (+10% doublestrike or +bonus to attack rate with ranged weapons)

Tier 1:
Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage with your group)
Exotic Weapon Mastery (Adds Khopesh or DAxe or Repeater, etc. to the appropriate group)
Attack Boost (Action Boost: +4/6/8 To Hit for 20 seconds)
Reed in the Wind (special attack: 30 second cooldown. +1W attack. Gain +3/6/9% Dodge for 6 seconds.)

Tier 2:
Tactics (+1/2/3 to the DC of your Tactical abilities)
Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage for one handed weapons. +1 To Hit/+2 damage for two handed weapons)
Improved Dodge (+1/2/3% Dodge when wearing Light or no armor)
Weapon Meditation (Meditate for a while. Every 6/4/2 seconds, add +1 stacking up to +10 Insight bonus to the Enhancement bonus of the weapon. That drops by 1 every 10 seconds until it runs out. You can also get this same kind of bonus from Vorpal hits from the Spirital Bond Core Ability.)
Ascetic Training (+1 Concentration and your choice of +1/2/3 Reflex and +1/2/3 Dodge cap *or* +1/2/3 Fort and +5/10/15 HP *or* +1/2/3Will save and +0/0/1 passive Ki regeneration)

Tier 3:
Critical Accuracy (+1/2/3 to confirm critical hits)
Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and +1 Damage - no mention of +2 Damage for two handed weapons)
Improved Mobility (+1/2/3 Max Dex bonus and -1/2/3 Armor Check penalty in light armor)
Shattering Strike (Focus Melee Attack: +1/2/3 W attack. On damage: Target loses 5/10/15% fortification for 10 seconds. DC = 10 + half Fighter level + Wis mod)
+Str/Dex/Wis

Tier 4:
Critical Damage (+1/2/3 damage before multiplier on critical hits)
Weapon Group Specialization (+1 To Hit and Damage for one handed weapons. +1 To Hit/+2 damage for two handed weapons)
+Str/Dex/Wis

Tier 5:
A Good Death (Focused Melee Attack: melee attack with +1 critical threat range. If target is under 20% HP, they take 500 damage.*)
Keen Edge (+1 Critical Threat rage for your Focus weapons
One With The Blade (Your Focus weapons are considered centered for Ki stuff)
Deadly Strike (Focused Melee Attack: make an attack that is automatically a critical threat. On Vorpal, do 500 extra damage.*)
*no mention of whether the 500 damage is before or after crit.

Say this is pretty off man there are alot of ranged enhancements in kensai which you do not put in here. Update this please.

[fool101]

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]

Tier 1: Patient Strike (replaces Reed in the Wind)
Requires: Combat Expertise
The kensei has learned to use defense as a tool to force his enemy to show his weakness. By spending time to study his opponent, the kensei can deliver a strong blow at the right moment.
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Combat Expertise stance): + <Number of Kensei Core abilities> W; bypass <Number of Kensei Core abilities> * 5% fortification.

Tier 2: Improved Power Attack
Requires: Power Attack
The kensei has learned to use his strength to all its advantage with his weapons of choice. When using his Focus weapons, the kensei increases the bonus to damage from Power attack by an additional +1/+2/+3 (and increases the to-hit penalty by an additional -1/-2/-3).

Tier 3: Shattering Strike (replaces existing enhancement)
Requires: Improved Sunder
When using Improved Sunder with his Focus weapons, the attack adds +1/2/3W and reduces fortification by -10%/-15%/-20%.

Tier 3: Precise Strike (replaces critical accuracy; make Critical damage work like a Seeker bonus)
Requires: Precision
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Precision stance): +1W and +1 Critical multiplier.

Tier 4: Weakening Strike
Requires: Slicing Blow
The kensei has learned to use his weapons of choice to weaken his opponents over time. When you use your Focus weapons, you inflict a bleeding wound on a confirmed critical, inflicting 2d6 damage every 2 seconds during 10 seconds. If you score a new critical before the end of the bleeding strike, the countdown resets.

Tier 5: Staggering Strike (replaces A Good Death)
Requires: Improved Trip
The kensei has learned to take full advantage against a prone opponent.
When using your Focus weapons, you treat tripped opponents as if they were helpless.

I love all of your suggestions, especially the Staggering Strike! As a person who is a master of arms, I would expect them to be able to take advantage of prone/weakened enemies. This would also really make trip a more sought-after feat as well.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Say this is pretty off man there are alot of ranged enhancements in kensai which you do not put in here. Update this please.

I can visit Krug today, but I only have so many hours available to DDO in a single day. I do plan to add more information to that post with the other weapon groups, but I haven't had an opportunity to do so yet.

If you would like to expand the information on Kensei (which is pretty enormous compared to the other trees because of the large number of weapon groups), then you are welcome to do it yourself if I'm not fast enough for you.

[Arlathen]

With this... they are going to have to make some massive improvements on why it would be worth using handwraps as a monk.

Not really.

Unarmed is still 10% Faster Attack Speed, intrinsic full Strength bonus to offhand attacks, and can utilise Stunning Fist.

With the apparent nerfs to Fighter Tactical DCs at the moment, Stunning Fist availability is pretty huge for unarmed fighters.

[Arlathen]

Tier 1: Patient Strike (replaces Reed in the Wind)
Requires: Combat Expertise
The kensei has learned to use defense as a tool to force his enemy to show his weakness. By spending time to study his opponent, the kensei can deliver a strong blow at the right moment.
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Combat Expertise stance): + <Number of Kensei Core abilities> W; bypass <Number of Kensei Core abilities> * 5% fortification.

Tier 2: Improved Power Attack
Requires: Power Attack
The kensei has learned to use his strength to all its advantage with his weapons of choice. When using his Focus weapons, the kensei increases the bonus to damage from Power attack by an additional +1/+2/+3 (and increases the to-hit penalty by an additional -1/-2/-3).

Tier 3: Shattering Strike (replaces existing enhancement)
Requires: Improved Sunder
When using Improved Sunder with his Focus weapons, the attack adds +1/2/3W and reduces fortification by -10%/-15%/-20%.

Tier 3: Precise Strike (replaces critical accuracy; make Critical damage work like a Seeker bonus)
Requires: Precision
Special attack (cooldown: 30 sec.; requires using Focus weapons and being in Precision stance): +1W and +1 Critical multiplier.

Tier 4: Weakening Strike
Requires: Slicing Blow
The kensei has learned to use his weapons of choice to weaken his opponents over time. When you use your Focus weapons, you inflict a bleeding wound on a confirmed critical, inflicting 2d6 damage every 2 seconds during 10 seconds. If you score a new critical before the end of the bleeding strike, the countdown resets.

Tier 5: Staggering Strike (replaces A Good Death)
Requires: Improved Trip
The kensei has learned to take full advantage against a prone opponent.
When using your Focus weapons, you treat tripped opponents as if they were helpless.

These are some pretty cool ideas - BUT - I thought one of the main reasons of the enhancements pass was to get AWAY from all the feat pre-requisites? The tree already wants you take WF, WS, and GWF. More feat pre-reqs is placing more limits on your build if you want the Kensai choices.

[Taojeff]

Ok. I am seeing a lot of people saying that you would need this and that without actually testing builds on lama land. Please go there if you can because quite a bit of this is erroneous. A perfect example is people thinking you cannot get the top tier ability without so many levels of a class...totally false. The only level requirements are for the core abilities at the bottom as well as various feat abilities (that I have seen, I could have missed some).

Case in point is Kensai. I went all the way up and took most of the tree with a 8/6/6 Fighter/Monk/Tempest (did the level split to test various builds). Btw I also had tier 3 master of stone (which u can take as a feat as well as autogranted ... you get all 4 stances btw so its much cheaper then before, monks are making out.. but i disgress). Anyway I was able to max the kensai line and dual wield bastard swords as ki weapons (I was getting constant enhancement procs and my crit range would go down to 14-20 sometimes...I was really tearing up the mobs I tested both in the dojo and out).

So, to reiterate. You do not have to take so many levels to get to the top tier, for kensai the magic number is 8 because you need greater weapon focus to get through both lines that lead to the middle center.

I do agree it could use some improvement, but I am holding my suggestions till i have done a couple more builds before posting comments on it.

[Taojeff]

Not really.

Unarmed is still 10% Faster Attack Speed, intrinsic full Strength bonus to offhand attacks, and can utilise Stunning Fist.

With the apparent nerfs to Fighter Tactical DCs at the moment, Stunning Fist availability is pretty huge for unarmed fighters.

I missed the tactical feat nerf? You mean the one point?

[DarkForte]

I missed the tactical feat nerf? You mean the one point?

4 points. Kensai III on live grants +3 to tactical feat DCs, and fighters can get up to an extra 4 in any single line.

Dwarves and WF can get an extra +3.

[geoffhanna]

I find the lack of a specific weapon choice in the Kensai tree disturbing.

I acknowledge that this may be more of a flavor/ role-play/ D&D purist point of view but nonetheless, I will miss Weapon Specialization.

[geoffhanna]

+1 Hungarian Rhapsody for transcribing!

[Scraap]

I find the lack of a specific weapon choice in the Kensai tree disturbing.

I acknowledge that this may be more of a flavor/ role-play/ D&D purist point of view but nonetheless, I will miss Weapon Specialization.

I kinda like it, and kinda don't, though this is coming from mainly an SD (have previously tinkered with kensai dips back when to-hit meant something), so by all means keep that under consideration.

That being said, it would be nice to see a solid general root, with the capacity to branch out into optional specialization similar to how there are several tactical feat enhancing branches here and there throughout the tree.

[SealedInSong]

With this... they are going to have to make some massive improvements on why it would be worth using handwraps as a monk.

Considering 10-12% alacrity (confirmed by Eladrin), full off-hand bonus, Stunning Fist, Touch of Death, Fists of Light, Quivering Palm, etc.

But I do agree that we'll see plenty of Flavor of the Month eSoS builds using wind stance or whatnot, regardless of whether they are higher DPS (in eSoS's case I wonder how much monk you could fit in at all--probably only the base stance?). After the novelty wears off, more people will settle for the optimized builds.

A finesse light pick centered-kensei or Balizarde centered-kensei would be pretty wicked. If you have to lose out fist abilities, might as well pick up something with ridiculous crit profiles.

[Cetus]

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]The most noticeable absence is the Haste Boost!


Tier 5: Staggering Strike (replaces A Good Death)
Requires: Improved Trip
The kensei has learned to take full advantage against a prone opponent.
When using your Focus weapons, you treat tripped opponents as if they were helpless.

Equally concerning is the boost COUNT that just took a plunge. In this tree, we're losing 3 boosts that we get from kensei, and 3 more boosts that fighters got from fighter extra action boost enhancements. Thats 6 potential boosts, gone. Terrible

I think your staggering blow is genius by the way, I'd love that thing.