The Official Warforged Enhancements Discussion Thread!

[scoobmx]

honestly, an investment of all that AP all the way to the top, enduring tons of crappy filler, for 0.5W...

weapon attach should be 'until death or rest, you may wield two-handed melee weapons as if they were one-handed weapons, at a -2 attack penalty'

[chanw4]

Another issue is the point spent is too deep. They used the ED model for enhancement, which isn't bad for ED.

For ED, you only have 1 tree to choose from, but for enhancement, you have to choose from abilities across 4 trees and let be honest, with that kind of deep AP investment per tree, most cannot afford to spread across more than 2 trees. You can't even max 2 tress at the same time, we have 80 points only but to max 1 of the 4 tree, you have to spent 40 points to unlock the last tier and spend 2 more points to get the enhancement from the last tier. This doesn't help when some of the tree require you to spend points on junk enhancement to reach it.

I think they should lower the AP cost and unlinking some of the enhancement, reduce the points require for each tier. Or give us more AP to use for.

[Jay203]

weapon attach should be 'until death or rest, you may wield two-handed melee weapons as if they were one-handed weapons, at a -2 attack penalty'

... no

besides, it's a Tier 5 battle engineer ability that's lowered to tier 4 for wf
it's fine as is

but the AP cost overall in the entire enhancement system needs an overhaul

[bigolbear]

my comments:

1. repair amp:
this is something that should not be desired or taken by arcanes, rather it should be something desired by mele. The only reason you didnt nerf recon along with heal was the logic that there was no repair amp around - and arcanes could heal them selves fine... that and the complaints.

What we should be looking to acheive here is a no further efficiency in WF arcane self healing but rather the abilitiy to allow an arcane to repair a mele wf with minimal investment(or rather place that investment on the mele).

Thus I would propose:
1 removing the repair amp line as it stands.
2 Add repair amp to the various body types. (and make sure all heal amp items in game also grant repair amp)
3 add a different repair amp line that also grants other construct type benefits at the cost of arcane spell failure.


2. DR lines and PRR.
Any feature that grant DR to warforge should probly also grant PRR - because otherwise what you end up with is WF being great toons for low lvl/easy questing but terrible for high lvl/elite questing.

3. the body feat.
While your messing about with all this make the body feat a free selection like the helf dily - and add more options.

[Charononus]

my comments:

1. repair amp:
this is something that should not be desired or taken by arcanes, rather it should be something desired by mele. The only reason you didnt nerf recon along with heal was the logic that there was no repair amp around - and arcanes could heal them selves fine... that and the complaints.

What we should be looking to acheive here is a no further efficiency in WF arcane self healing but rather the abilitiy to allow an arcane to repair a mele wf with minimal investment(or rather place that investment on the mele).

Thus I would propose:
1 removing the repair amp line as it stands.
2 Add repair amp to the various body types. (and make sure all heal amp items in game also grant repair amp)
3 add a different repair amp line that also grants other construct type benefits at the cost of arcane spell failure.


2. DR lines and PRR.
Any feature that grant DR to warforge should probly also grant PRR - because otherwise what you end up with is WF being great toons for low lvl/easy questing but terrible for high lvl/elite questing.

3. the body feat.
While your messing about with all this make the body feat a free selection like the helf dily - and add more options.

Problem with your vision of who should take repair amp is that melee need heal amp, and repair amp prevents taking healers friend. This means only classes that can cast recon will take repair amp.

[shadowspeaker]

I had high hopes for the enhancement pass. I have always felt this was one of the strongest things DDO brings to the table. Yes it is a bit 4e and even though I really dislike 4e it works well for an rpg.

Tier 0.
Gaining more fortifiacation is cool, not sure why I will need 300% fort but ok...

Tier 1
Sweet repair amp... at the cost of healing amp well guess that will be good if I play an arcane

Tier 2
Normal core stuff we have had, would like to see a change in the DR to PRR or to something that matters end game.

Tier 3
WF resolve cool if I have a high repair skill like on a wizard... who would have reconstruct... so no need to take it rogue maybe if I have skill points to dump... oh it is temp hp.... sigh
WF Attach weapon- about time lets get some core Ebberon going! 3 Min cool down, Wait is it a stance or a short buff? Have not had the chance to mess with it. If it is a stance with that weapon cool 30 second buff why bother.

Over all meh, Looks like more thought went into the other races. Maybe I am wrong, hope so. Nothing for LOB or any docent enhancments somthing that adds more PRR when you use a Planeforged vs basic docent.

other
T4
Venomed Blades: Poison Stance: On Hit: 1d4/1d6/1d8 Poison damage with weapon attacks. (This enhancement cannot be taken at the same time as Venomed Blades in the Assassin tree.)

Dwarf Fortress: While wearing full plate and using a shield, you gain +1/+2/+3 Armor Class, Intimidate, and Will saving throws vs. Fear, and you deal +3%/+5%/+7% additional weapon damage

Hands of Stone: Earthgrab (Reflex DC: 10 + Level + Constitution Modifier)

Brutality: When using a two handed weapon, you deal an additional 20% damage to helpless opponents.

[Jay203]

honestly i think the way Toughness is for warforged right now is just a plain slap in their faces

2 AP for 5 HP, and it's a multi tier enhancement which takes the place of what other races have in place for weapon training

Dwarves on the other hand, get the toughness + weapon training + tactics DC + potion CL increase + max hp up + Radiant Forcefield + Armor mastery + Shield mastery...
on top of that they get to use Con as damage mod for their choice of weapon betwee axe or pick/hammer

[voodoogroves]

honestly i think the way Toughness is for warforged right now is just a plain slap in their faces

2 AP for 5 HP, and it's a multi tier enhancement which takes the place of what other races have in place for weapon training

Dwarves on the other hand, get the toughness + weapon training + tactics DC + potion CL increase + max hp up + Radiant Forcefield + Armor mastery + Shield mastery...
on top of that they get to use Con as damage mod for their choice of weapon betwee axe or pick/hammer

Dwarves and Halflings are clearly getting some nifty things.

The repair-or-heal issue I think is just going to make things worse for WF - not better. And the lack of meaningful melee abilities beyond tactics essentially means "All WF will remain casters"

And really, if the defender-shield thing stands, that just makes WF casters more attractive to equip with a shield.

[fyrst.grok]

Been testing out some more and here is some thoughts on some needed change.

Overall the ap costs are way too high and should be global spend points, not just the ones in the respective tree, but that goes for all the races/classes.

Edit: Bottom row should be autogrants like it is in ED's.
Don't really know why they need 300ish fortification, Some dr/prr/hp or similar would probably make more sense.


Construct nature: Not really something I'd take. Poison/disease immunity like they used to have would maybe be worth it.

Repair/heal amp: I'm kinda indifferent on this.. soloers might like the repair amp, puggers heal amp.. guess it's fine.

Inscribed armor: Okay I guess for the few who need less arcane failure.

Construct toughness: 2 pt for 5 hp.. Really? on live it's 3 ap for 20 hp.. This is 8 ap for 20 hp. Should be 1 pt for 10 hp if anything.
Personally I would rather that wf get something thematically fitting like a armor/weapon enhancement/attachment line. Adding armor spikes, weapon effects like double strikes, speed or force. So many possibilities and not op in comparison with the other races acces to battle enhancements.

Wf stability: Not really sure what I think of this.. Would probably not use ap on it.

Wf tactics: I like this. no need to change this imo.

Great weapon aptitude: Worthless.. Again.. weapon attachments.

Damage reduction: a bit expensive imo. 1 pt pr. tier would be more appropriate.

Improved body: Prr is nice, so is the ac.. Should be able to chose between them in stead of being tied to bodytype.

Brute fighting: Trash.. Makes no sense in a tactical warrior theme.

Improved power attack: Fine as it is.

Wf resolve: Duration too short and too little gain.. Honestly don't think anyone will ever take this.

Weapon attachment: This is nice.. We need more of this type of enhancements. it is thematically fitting and suit the race well.

Edit: And please make the body feat a extra feat taken at level 1 like the helf dilly. It makes much more sense as they should be 'born' with it.

[shadowspeaker]

Yep Dwarf is getting some great stuff as is halfling. Both are free to play races.

Drow is getting some cool stuff
Nothing Is Hidden: Your senses are so acute that you no longer need to spend time searching for the obvious. You will automatically perform a Search check to locate traps and secret doors when you are in range to Spot them, although this Search check occurs at a -12/-8/-4 penalty.

Darkfire: Spell-like Ability: Fires a bolt of darkness that deals 1d12 damage per character level, Reflex DC (10 + Half Character Level + Charisma Modifier) Half Damage. At levels 11 and 21 an additional bolt is fired. Effects that grant Action Boost uses give you additional uses per rest of this ability.

Ambidexterity: You gain +1/?/? to hit when dual-wielding or fighting unarmed.

I would expect the pay to play races to get more attention. I am not saying they should be over powered. They should be balanced, but they should have unique and fun features that make you want to play them.

I mean if you make Dwarves the pimp daddy race don't expect to make any money selling the other races.

[Jay203]

I mean if you make Dwarves the pimp daddy race don't expect to make any money selling the other races.

they wouldn't care, the wf already got sold >_>

[CoasterHops]

Posted this in the Primal forum as a response to someones post, thought I better put in here too:

The WF tree seems a little lacklustre to me.
Sure WF Arcane casters are going to take repair amp..... they were already pretty dang self sufficient.
WF Melee get cheaper healers friend but still dont get the ability to get to a net even heal amp with fleshies.
That meld your weapons to your body for an additional 0.5 (damage) seems to favor the already overpowered Juggernaut type builds who then cast deadly weapons on themself.

For me it looks like this WF tree goes further into locking WF melee into playing some sort of Juggernaut/tukaw type build instead of making a melee that doesn't require its own form of casting reconstruct.

[voodoogroves]

Repair and heal amp being exclusive needs to be revisited. Any WF arcane is going to not bother with heal, so this doesn't do anything but help them. A melee is going to need to care about heal, as in any raid they will be overseen by a divine. So they'll still spend AP to try to be equal to the fleshies ... and won't be able to take repair amp.
- Do not make this a multi-selector - make this provide BOTH. Arcanes won't invest as much into it, and that's fine - it is the melees that need the help.

The core line adding HP is really weak.
- In addition to HP, WF should get bonuses to poison and diseases. Seriously ... with an option to buy complete immunity back for those who really are passionate about that.

Brute Fighting
- Remove it.

Remove great weapon aptitude. It's pointless. WF melee need something, but they need their "own" thing. Add a line of abilities that scales / progresses that boost melee. Put some flavor of the Juggernaut into these as well as a shout-out to their missing slam attack. Examples would be:
- Armor Spikes - adds 1d4 spike damage to melee attacks. A higher tier or improvement would go to 1d6 and 1d8. Armor spikes is a core WF thematic addition.
- Add a Riposte capability later in the tree (similar to spare hand / swashbuckler) as a nod to the slam.
- As other races get a special attack or attack features, give WF one as well - Shock Trooper. Give this a cooldown, make it require Great Cleave ... as an active ability that propels the WF forward a bit (say 2 steps-ish) and peforms an attack w/ the Great Cleave arc that does normal [w] damage (not the increase from cleave) but executes a trip on all targets.
- Alternatively, you could make this a boost similar to Sundering Swings where, while the boost is active, all attacks are Trip attacks.
- I think either of these would be fun and blend both the WF juggernaut bull rush capabilities and the Domino Rush aspect of the Shock Trooper feat (a classic PNP power melee feat).

WF Resolve is somewhat weak.
- Make this activate similar to orcish fury - automatically at HP thresholds.
- Make the activation be a chance for temp HP.
- Make the % chance to proc and amount of temp HP (if still based on repair skill) based on % of HP - so at 50% small chance for some HP, at 25% more and at 10% a much better chance.

[chanw4]

I think Kensai is a better racial PrE to WF ocmpare to Stalwart Defender. WF racial gives 2 hander bonus but Stalwart Defender require Sword and Board.

[Indoran]

I'm picking you're hoping to balance out HP across the races a touch?

As you can notice though, there's a fairly negative response to 2ap for 5hp.

How about 2ap for 5hp + 3 prr per tier?

Also warforged prr still seems to be busted

good idea ^

I think Kensai is a better racial PrE to WF ocmpare to Stalwart Defender. WF racial gives 2 hander bonus but Stalwart Defender require Sword and Board.

Makes all the sense in the world ^

[Jay203]

remove the 4 tiers of toughness and put +10 hp on each of the WF constitutions in the core enhancement

then replace the vertical line where the toughness used to be with something decent for a change

[chanw4]

remove the 4 tiers of toughness and put +10 hp on each of the WF constitutions in the core enhancement

then replace the vertical line where the toughness used to be with something decent for a change

Like this too!

Also, please fix body feat PRR to the corresponding armour type.
Adamantine: BAB +6
Mithril: 1/2 BAB + 2

[Jay203]

Like this too!

Also, please fix body feat PRR to the corresponding armour type.
Adamantine: BAB +6
Mithril: 1/2 BAB + 2

and add additional PRR in the improved body enhancement

[Charononus]

and add additional PRR in the improved body enhancement

This. With the damage bloat of the current game wf dr doesn't hold up. However adding wf racial prr just makes sense to give as it provides benefits consistent with the lore.

[Jay203]

maybe where they had the toughness line, they can add a line that improves a Warforged natural innate defence
things like more PRR, more DR, innate regen(?), or maybe even element resistance that stacks with everything