The Official Dwarf Enhancements Discussion Thread!

[Trasak]

Ill jump in and say as well that Throw your Weight around should either include to-hit and tactics AND be attainable before level 6 or it should stay where it is and add 1/2 con to one-handed and con to hand and a half and 2handers in addition to the strength damage.

Over all continuing to mention that there should be less skill tier linking and racial trees should look at total points spent and not points spent in the tree. If you feel something is worth 10 AP don't make it 4 tiers just make it one with a higher cost.

[HatsuharuZ]

Child of the Mountain would be perfect if it came with 10%-20% electrical absorbsion, or if there was another enhancement that allowed one to gain some type of elemental absorbsion while it was active. ;D

[Urist]

Dwarf Fortress

I approve of this enhancement.

[btolson]

This tree needs more options that a non-melee char might find useful. Incentives aimed at diversifying the typical race/class combos would be nice.

+SP is something that dwarves used to have access to, that would be nice to see again.

Dwarves are supposed to be quite comfortable with heavy armor and shields (lorewise, they even give their shields names and talk about them like people), so maybe some -ASF (for shields at least). Maybe a boost to active blocking DR?

Maybe some bonuses to Fire, Repair, and Acid (closest corollary to Earth) spellpower?

[hit_fido]

This tree needs more options that a non-melee char might find useful. Incentives aimed at diversifying the typical race/class combos would be nice.

+SP is something that dwarves used to have access to, that would be nice to see again.

Dwarves are supposed to be quite comfortable with heavy armor and shields (lorewise, they even give their shields names and talk about them like people), so maybe some -ASF (for shields at least). Maybe a boost to active blocking DR?

Maybe some bonuses to Fire, Repair, and Acid (closest corollary to Earth) spellpower?

Well there is no equivalent of Dwarven Faith here, but aside from that there is about the same degree of enhancements for non melee as there was before. Spell Defense, Toughness, Constitution, the opportunity for Con as damage for melee divines or even arcanes is new, albeit not quite right as located in the tree yet. Iron Stomach is at least useful for any build even if not highly desired. They did a good job IMO of capturing the key dwarven archetypes and although that includes axe/pick/hammer and armor, there's still a selection of stuff here useful for every build more or less like it is on Live.

However, the issue is the AP gating and how that forces a caster based dwarf into taking a lot of enhancements that are wasted for their build, just to get some of the enhancements that they used to be able to on Live that are useful for their builds.

So - good selection *available*; bad gating mechanic that's forcing one to waste AP in order to obtain what is relevant to their build in a similar way they could on Live.

[Zuka]

I'd just like to note that con only working on damage is very much so/so. If it were to add to attack as well, now we'd be talking, but making a build based on con without at least a decent investment in strength just doesn't work when you can't hit anything, I thought it would be really cool to see a few dwarven fighters with very low strength and very high con but with this it seems like that is unlikely.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Weilding a battle axe is more like weilding a warhammer than a great axe. Dwarves should not have to choose between axes or other hafted weapons. This adds unnessesary complexity. Dwarven weapon training should apply equally to axes, hammers, picks, etc.

[Indoran]

I'm going to assume the Core abilities are bugged and should be 2ap each for the dwarven Toughness.

The +AC for dwarven fortress seems horribly low. That's a lot of AP to get there, and by then you're in Full Plate and somehow +1-2-3 AC is supposed to interest you? Not sure I buy it. You'll take it for the Intim and/or the weapon damage, but the AC seems like just clutter - either remove it, or make it meaningful.

maybe PRR would be more interesting something along the lines of 3/6/9 ???

Btw you are making me wish to roll a dwarf

[emptysands]

Weilding a battle axe is more like weilding a warhammer than a great axe. Dwarves should not have to choose between axes or other hafted weapons. This adds unnessesary complexity. Dwarven weapon training should apply equally to axes, hammers, picks, etc.

Actually I'm not sure that is true.

Effective combat with blunt weapons may target different weak spots over slashing weapons.

Good spots to break bones vs chinks in armour to draw blood.

Picks are probably bit of both, but then they have to worry about being embedded and entrapped.

[btolson]

... there is about the same degree of enhancements for non melee as there was before...

Which is largely the problem. Toughness and Con would be the biggest draw, but you can get those from Warforged. I'm not desirous of dwarf becoming the go-to race for all non-melees, but a few more incentives to lure a noticeable amount of non-melees towards the race and diversify the general demographics would be a good thing. I don't expect the current offerings to do much in that regard.

[eachna_gislin]

Not perfect, but at least well thought out with interesting choices.

A very sturdy and solid racial enhancement, just like dwarves.

edit: corrected typo

[emptysands]

A Dwarf who just wants Runes III is going to need to spend 10 + 6 = 16 AP vs just 6 AP at the moment.

[SerPounce]

Ill jump in and say as well that Throw your Weight around should either include to-hit and tactics AND be attainable before level 6 or it should stay where it is and add 1/2 con to one-handed and con to hand and a half and 2handers in addition to the strength damage.

Over all continuing to mention that there should be less skill tier linking and racial trees should look at total points spent and not points spent in the tree. If you feel something is worth 10 AP don't make it 4 tiers just make it one with a higher cost.

To-hit isn't a big deal in the new system. Just don't completely dump STR and you'll be fine along with basic +STR gear and the required enhancements that give +to hit.

And giving up tactics DCs for massive HP with very little DPS loss is a reasonable trade.

Dwarves are going to be blowing away all the other races for tanking the way things are now, I really don't see a need to buff it. Give them con to tactics also and there will be no reason to play another race for any melee.

[mezzorco]

Give dwarves back their divine spell points. It's not that difficult, just a divine caster class as a prerequisite.

[Vellrad]

Apart from spending few hours on downloading lammania client, is there any way to previev enchancements?

[Alcedes]

can someone please explain to me the point in the axe/mace line? i mean it seems cool at first. but if you look up weapon options, its impressiveness evaporates promptly. it would be useful for 2 handers i guess (mainly great axes) but seriously. look at the one handed options for axes and maces. polish a turd all you want. its still ****.

the idea is awesome. but limiting it to axes/maces only ruins it. while based on lore it makes perfect sense, without the weapons to take advantage its silly.

i was thikning of this as a good race for my DoS tank for a nice boost to his dps. but with the severe limitations of one handed maces/axes worth a darn, id still be doing more dps with my swords.

quite disappointing.

[PainStealer]

can someone please explain to me the point in the axe/mace line? i mean it seems cool at first. but if you look up weapon options, its impressiveness evaporates promptly. it would be useful for 2 handers i guess (mainly great axes) but seriously. look at the one handed options for axes and maces. polish a turd all you want. its still ****.

the idea is awesome. but limiting it to axes/maces only ruins it. while based on lore it makes perfect sense, without the weapons to take advantage its silly.

i was thikning of this as a good race for my DoS tank for a nice boost to his dps. but with the severe limitations of one handed maces/axes worth a darn, id still be doing more dps with my swords.

quite disappointing.

What ?? Have you ever seen Mornh ? Or maybe a Drow Warhammer ? Or really a Nightforged Warhammer ?

Mornh has lots of goodness pasted all over it, Drow Hammers are like 1 handed ESOS. and Night Forge are min level 8 with x4 crits. There off the top of my head 3 hammers ( one of them easily acquired ) that are worth a darn.

[Alcedes]

What ?? Have you ever seen Mornh ? Or maybe a Drow Warhammer ? Or really a Nightforged Warhammer ?

Mornh has lots of goodness pasted all over it, Drow Hammers are like 1 handed ESOS. and Night Forge are min level 8 with x4 crits. There off the top of my head 3 hammers ( one of them easily acquired ) that are worth a darn.

of the weapons you mentioned, only Mornh is a suitable end game tank weapon for a paladin

[PainStealer]

of the weapons you mentioned, only Mornh is a suitable end game tank weapon for a paladin

lol I didnt say the others were end game. Obviously you arent going to end game tank with nightforge weapons. But the night forge are certainly good enough to get you up to Drow hammers. And drow hammers are good enough till you can pull a mornh. And honestly my end game tank uses hammers right now. I have quite a selection of loot gen hammers that are fairly appealing to use. Some of them are better than mornh against certain types of baddies.

So yeah .... Plenty of good hammers to go around. And if you dont like hammers .... there are always deathnips. Or any other type of weapon you like to use.

[Masadique]

I DM'd for about 2 decades in regular groups, trust me, people who got twisted up regularly over verisimilitude based on real life stuff, are almost universally "accidently not invited back" and then made fun of the next session.

As a long time DM, this is so true. No one likes the guy who tries to argue every point, and he's better left to himself. At home. Alone.

V