What's all this Shiradi talk about?

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

While i agree shiradi is absolutely great for soloing, has great single target dps and can get a bunch of kill counts in group... It is my oppinion that in an average quest, in a full party, their dps is very low compared to an DI sorc bursting, breathing, banging.

I wonder if i missed something and am totally wrong?

[ssternlight]

How does a first life pure Archmage Wizard get to Shiradi to begin with? It's two spheres away from Magister and DI. I can see that the first adjacent sphere opens up at ED 4. Is the idea that I have to subsequently choose a new destiny from the new sphere, push to level 4 there and then have access to the Shiradi sphere? Seems like quite the grind...

[HungarianRhapsody]

How does a first life pure Archmage Wizard get to Shiradi to begin with? It's two spheres away from Magister and DI. I can see that the first adjacent sphere opens up at ED 4. Is the idea that I have to subsequently choose a new destiny from the new sphere, push to level 4 there and then have access to the Shiradi sphere? Seems like quite the grind...

It is. Don't run House of Rusted Blades more than twice until you have enough Epic XP to take level 25 (because of the XP limit mechanism at cap, you can remain level 23 while standing at "Maximum Epic XP achieved" if you don't want to take levels 24 or 25). At that point, you can run all of the best XP/minute quests until your eyes bleed to pick up the millions and millions of XP requried to wander around the spheres to hit Shiradi. You may also want to take a trip over to Exalted Angel to twist in Endless Faith. It's another couple of million XP on top of what you already are grinding, but it's a very nice twist for 10% more SP and a bigger Echoes of Power refresh.

[anivaj]

While i agree shiradi is absolutely great for soloing, has great single target dps and can get a bunch of kill counts in group... It is my oppinion that in an average quest, in a full party, their dps is very low compared to an DI sorc bursting, breathing, banging.

I wonder if i missed something and am totally wrong?

In EH or below, DI is godly. In EEs, due to the high saves, Shiradis rule. Mobs constantly saving vs your bursts for half or no damage (evaders) makes DI subpar in EEs.

[anivaj]

Shiradi is absolutely not balanced with Draconic and Magister. That doesn't mean that Shiradi is massively overpowered, however. It means that Draconic and Magister offer very few benefits and most of the "benefits" that they do offer either don't work or don't do anything.

Shiradi is only marginally OPed. If they reduced Nerve Venom to work per spell instead of per hit, Shiradi would be perfectly balanced. Then they would just need to buff DI and magister to make them better.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Shiradi is only marginally OPed. If they reduced Nerve Venom to work per spell instead of per hit, Shiradi would be perfectly balanced. Then they would just need to buff DI and magister to make them better.

I don't think that Nerve Venom is that big of a deal, but I might also just not be all that good at using it. I do agree with your post as a whole, however, and I wouldn't cry if that change to Nerve Venom were made.

[maximus123123]

Shiradi is only marginally OPed. If they reduced Nerve Venom to work per spell instead of per hit, Shiradi would be perfectly balanced. Then they would just need to buff DI and magister to make them better.

Some posters mistake their *opinions* for fact.
It is your opinion that nerfing Nerve Venom would make it balanced.

It is my opinion that it's already balanced.
Nerfing Nerve Venom would, IMO, make Shiradi casters as underwhelming as Magister and DI currently.

If you nerf Shiradi while boosting Magister and DI, then you've just made it so that no one would have an incentive to remain in Shiradi as a caster. But, then again, that's the whole point of your posts.

I believe there should be a real struggle as to which to take because they're all so good in different ways. Leave Shiradi as is and boost the others. Shiradi is nowhere near overpowered, IMO. It feels just perfectly balanced for EEs. Not too powerful, not too gimped.

[Viconiax]

Remember that nerve venom is only 7% at its max tier, with mm it's still only 35% to proc and it can only hit 1 mob. Compare it to mass hold monsters that can hold multiple mobs at same time if we don't have DC problem, mass hold monsters win.

[anivaj]

Remember that nerve venom is only 7% at its max tier, with mm it's still only 35% to proc and it can only hit 1 mob. Compare it to mass hold monsters that can hold multiple mobs at same time if we don't have DC problem, mass hold monsters win.

Look in to how chain missiles works then get back to me

[anivaj]

Some posters mistake their *opinions* for fact.
It is your opinion that nerfing Nerve Venom would make it balanced.

It is my opinion that it's already balanced.
Nerfing Nerve Venom would, IMO, make Shiradi casters as underwhelming as Magister and DI currently.

If you nerf Shiradi while boosting Magister and DI, then you've just made it so that no one would have an incentive to remain in Shiradi as a caster. But, then again, that's the whole point of your posts.

I believe there should be a real struggle as to which to take because they're all so good in different ways. Leave Shiradi as is and boost the others. Shiradi is nowhere near overpowered, IMO. It feels just perfectly balanced for EEs. Not too powerful, not too gimped.

It is utterly apparent that nerve venom proccing ten times on a chain missile and even more procs on secondary hits is Oped. Only someone who loves the easy button that is nerve venom would say it is balanced. If you really think that reducing nerve venom to proc per spell would make casters run away from Shiradi, then you dont know why people currently play in Shiradi. It offers efficient DPS which will be needed in EEs, even without FREE CC with no investment or skill (nerve venom chain missiles).

[maximus123123]

A caster able to lock down one or at most two mobs by continually attacking it can hardly be called overpowered.

On the otherhand a mass hold capable of holding a dozen mobs with a single attack, that could easily be seen as OP.

I honestly hope we do not go back to the days when DC casters using CC ruled.
I hated that every party had to have one and that many party leaders would wait to get at least one.

With it nerfed down the way it is now, you fill a party with whatever you get and go...

Much better this way IMO.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Only someone who loves the easy button that is nerve venom would say it is balanced.

This reminds me of the "LIKE if you love your grandmother! Scroll past if you want her to die!" posts on Facebook.

[Viconiax]

Look in to how chain missiles works then get back to me

Chain missiles only proc 10 additional missiles when they hit, it may look nice when u look at it mathematically because it would be 77% proc, but since it explode to hit randomly target, it not really that op.

EDIT: Which decrease the proc chance per target

[anivaj]

A caster able to lock down one or at most two mobs by continually attacking it can hardly be called overpowered.

On the otherhand a mass hold capable of holding a dozen mobs with a single attack, that could easily be seen as OP.

I honestly hope we do not go back to the days when DC casters using CC ruled.
I hated that every party had to have one and that many party leaders would wait to get at least one.

With it nerfed down the way it is now, you fill a party with whatever you get and go...

Much better this way IMO.

Locking down one monster with no save is still OPed when it involves no investment. Monks can lock down one target with stunning fist, BUT it takes tons of investment.

As for the Mass Hold comparison, Hold takes a ton of investment AND the mob gets a save EVERY TWO SECONDS, while nerve venom gets no save for 6 seconds. And if you don't think Shiradis can lock down more than one target, then apparently you have not used the chain missile spell... Become an evoker AM and you can fire them off one after another.

[anivaj]

Chain missiles only proc 10 additional missiles when they hit, it may look nice when u look at it mathematically because it would be 77% proc, but since it explode to hit randomly target, it not really that op.

It is also extremely spammable, especially for an evoker AM. I have played a shiradi caster and from experience I can honestly say nerve venom with the right spells is an easy button that takes absolutely no investment, which is fine if you want to dominate with no skill.

[maximus123123]

chain missile spell... Become an evoker AM and you can fire them off one after another.

The one with the 8 second cooldown you mean?
Wow. Now that is overpowered !

Evocation III - Chain Missiles
◦Usage: Active
◦Cost: 1 action points
◦Progression: 43 action points
◦Requires All of: Archmage III, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Evocation II - Gust of Wind
◦Available to Wizard class level 12
◦You have committed the spell Chain Missiles permanently to memory as a spell-like ability. Using this ability costs you 10 spell points. Purchasing this enhancement will reduce your maximum spell point total by 50. Has 8 seconds cooldown.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Locking down one monster with no save is still OPed when it involves no investment. Monks can lock down one target with stunning fist, BUT it takes tons of investment.

As for the Mass Hold comparison, Hold takes a ton of investment AND the mob gets a save EVERY TWO SECONDS, while nerve venom gets no save for 6 seconds. And if you don't think Shiradis can lock down more than one target, then apparently you have not used the chain missile spell... Become an evoker AM and you can fire them off one after another.

Once you make that investment, you can count on Mass Hold Monster and Disco Balls and Stunning Fist/Stunning Blow/Kukan Do/etc to work (or at least you can when DCs are appropriate which is part of the reason why Shiradi is perceived as overpowered). You can't count on Nerve Venom to work when you need it to work.

The reason why DC casters were so popular for the time when they were is that you could count on them to get the job done. Shiradi has some really nice features, but reliability isn't one of them.

[Viconiax]

It is also extremely spammable, especially for an evoker AM. I have played a shiradi caster and from experience I can honestly say nerve venom with the right spells is an easy button that takes absolutely no investment.

And since i played a shiradi also, i can said it's not that OP (many others agreed with me also). The person that tried to get to shiradi also spend lot of time farming ED, getting gears for their toon, plan out their toon, cap the toon, etc.

The only thing that took no invesment in DDO is ASAH.

The only easy button afaik is pre-fix EiN.

Considering talking about easy button, make a druid, max out evo DC, and spam earthquake, mobs can't never ever get up from high DC earthquake (yes, even ee gh mobs)

[maximus123123]

I can honestly say ...

...

I've run CitW over 100 times and never saw Twilight fall, even for someone else.

Should you really be invoking "honesty?"

[anivaj]

The one with the 8 second cooldown you mean?
Wow. Now that is overpowered !

Evocation III - Chain Missiles
◦Usage: Active
◦Cost: 1 action points
◦Progression: 43 action points
◦Requires All of: Archmage III, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation, Evocation II - Gust of Wind
◦Available to Wizard class level 12
◦You have committed the spell Chain Missiles permanently to memory as a spell-like ability. Using this ability costs you 10 spell points. Purchasing this enhancement will reduce your maximum spell point total by 50. Has 8 seconds cooldown.

Hmmmm, that mixed with:

Name: Chain Missiles
School: Evocation (Force spells)
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Spell Point Cost: 15
Metamagic: Empower, Enlarge, Maximize, Quicken
Range: Standard (Has some AOE, see text)
Target: Foe
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Cooldown: 3 seconds (Wiz), 2 seconds (Sor)

Regular CM has a 3 second CD. Regular CD, SLA CM, MM, CM, SLA CM.....on and on. Completely spammable, and requires absolutely no skill and can make numerous mobs helpless with NO SAVE for 6 seconds. If you can't see how this is overpowered, then there is no way I can ever convince you.