What's all this Shiradi talk about?

[jalont]

I wonder if the DCs being currently prohibitively high is because they were balanced against a build of the game running the enhancement pass: A Pale Master with a secondary PrE as a Necromancy Archmage would have significantly less trouble hitting those insta-kill DCs.

This is probably very true. I don't think they set out to nerf DC casters. There will be a time where, through gear/enhancement pass/EDs, DC casters will be able to faceroll eGH without the need to lower saves.

[maximus123123]

I don't necessarily disagree, just wonder why you think this.

I think TRing was THE end game for a while (when there was no other end game).
Now that Turbine is pumping out more new end game content, that no longer has to be the case.

Also, a lot of people have three or four mains mainly because of the grind expected. It would be nice (especially nice for new players) if we could make all sorts of toons that Epic Destinies could then be used to fill the gap on missing gear and past lives. If you have the gear and past lives, well then you're even better. But it shouldn't all be a huge grind on multiple levels.

At some point it's got to be about a player's ability to play the game not just the gear and past lives which are more symptomatic of someone with a LOT of time on their hands than skill playing a game.

[anivaj]

Because it's sooo difficult to select this feat over that feat when building a DC caster....

Tactics, planning and coordination are required whether you play a DC caster or a Shiradi caster.

A good player is still a good player with either. The difference is, one requires a pretty hefty grind while the other does that not and that has you upset.

Epic Destinies ought to make first life toons viable end game (TRs only being the icing on the cake). It should be about player skill not how much free time you have on your hands to grind !

AGAIN! 1st life DC toons ARE viable without the easy button of Shiradi and without a ton of grind. I'm sorry if you want to start a toon from scratch and dominate the game in less than a week. If that is your preference you can always go play Xbox...

[maximus123123]

AGAIN! 1st life DC toons ARE viable without the easy button of Shiradi and without a ton of grind. I'm sorry if you want to start a toon from scratch and dominate the game in less than a week. If that is your preference you can always go play Xbox...

Go do CITW !

[anivaj]

I think TRing was THE end game for a while (when there was no other end game).
Now that Turbine is pumping out more new end game content, that no longer has to be the case.

Also, a lot of people have three or four mains mainly because of the grind expected. It would be nice (especially nice for new players) if we could make all sorts of toons that Epic Destinies could then be ussed to fill the gap on missing gear and past lives. If you have the gear and past lives, well then you're even better. But it shouldn't all be a huge grind on multiple levels.

At some point it's got to be about a player's ability to play the game not just the gear and past lives which are more symptomatic of someone with a LOT of time on their hands than skill playing a game.

If you want to dominate the game in a few weeks, then feel free to take Shiradi. Winning at an MMO should not take a few weeks...

You keep acting like it was required to have 12 past lives to play a DC caster effectively which shows you have no clue how to play a 1st life caster

[maximus123123]

If you want to dominate the game in a few weeks, then feel free to take Shiradi. Winning at an MMO should not take a few weeks...

You keep acting like it was required to have 12 past lives to play a DC caster effectively which shows you have no clue how to play a 1st life caster

I Win !

You Win too since it apparently takes just as long to make a DC caster !

[anivaj]

I Win !

You Win too since it apparently takes just as long to make a DC caster !

Even if it did take the same amount of time, which it doesnt, shiradi sorcs require no intelligent use of abilities or spells. They just spam the same thing over and over. DC casters, if played correctly, require a lot more thought and tactics. (AND investment)

TLR It takes much more skill, knowledge, and play time to be a great DC caster than to be a Shiradi sorc.

[Viconiax]

I wonder if the DCs being currently prohibitively high is because they were balanced against a build of the game running the enhancement pass: A Pale Master with a secondary PrE as a Necromancy Archmage would have significantly less trouble hitting those insta-kill DCs.

From what I heard/read from forums/wiki, with the new enhancement pass, you can get stats from all of your PrE trees, and their tree enhancement stat stack up with each other, that probably be it.

[Viconiax]

Even if it did take the same amount of time, which it doesnt, shiradi sorcs require no intelligent use of abilities or spells. They just spam the same thing over and over. DC casters, if played correctly, require a lot more thought and tactics. (AND investment)

TLR It takes much more skill, knowledge, and play time to be a great DC caster than to be a Shiradi sorc.

Shiradi sorc required players skill:

Make the right build - make the build that fit you - I saw many shiradi casters before, not all of them are OP.

Get good hp: Spent time and investment to farm hp items, which boost your survival. When a shiradi got overwhelmed by a large number of ee mobs, even their chain missiles/meteor can't save them. You can't deal 10k+ dmg often without meta or joy/indulgence on. And no, nerve venom the entire room happen very rarely.

Get spellpower to the max - This make you have to spend time and investment to farm your spellpower item. It's like you never seen a twilight in about 100 CitW run. I got my on my 3rd run though, I saw 6-7 drop out of every 20 runs.

Get high sp pool - a shiradi is only deal massive DPS when they have meta on or when they have joy/indulgence on. And this meant you have to spent time and investment to farm sp item like conc-opp, sp item, torch, stats items, etc.

Sometimes things don't work out perfectly - the only real source of shiradi damage came from innates and some (not a lot) come from double rainbow, and sometimes you get overwhelmed by large number of mobs and your cc doesn't proc/work (ee tor giant immune to never venom). And this mean you have to have some other abilities/spells to back it up. Ex. EE PoP Marut room: this inevitable have a really high resistance to spells damage and also have the ability to dispell/stun while undead mobs attacking you. So spells doesn't work in there good. Another example: undead: they immune to nerve venom.

It required a LOT of skill to solo ee on a shiradi: been there, done that, I tried to solo ee on shiradi before, I know how it is. It even take more skill to do it without pots/re-enter, any casters, yes even divine, can solo ee easily if they re-entering/chunking pots a lot. P.S. There is already an arti with around 620 hp solo like all ee, should we nerf arti now? No.

Using the right stragety (using intelligence): It's like how Shataan solo ee raids, he is the master of finding safe spot in the quest environment so he don't take LOT of damage while doing ee. It require the knowledge of the quest and how the quest and mobs AI work.

We should throw a first life shiradi into ee FoT without decent gears farming/time investment to see how he does. I bet they will die REALLY fast, the spamming of mm won't save you from lightning bomb attack + debuff or 3 undead dragons on you at same time. And without investing time in farming spell absorb like ioun/jeweled cloak, they will die even faster.

They also spend lot of time to leveling their toon to 25, farming ED, and farm decent gears for themselves. They're also smart enough to figure out that DC-based ED like DI and Magister is not so good right now.

P.S.S. There is a button of winning in store already.

[anivaj]

Shiradi sorc required players skill:

Make the right build - make the build that fit you - I saw many shiradi casters before, not all of them are OP.

Get good hp: Spent time and investment to farm hp items, which boost your survival. When a shiradi got overwhelmed by a large number of ee mobs, even their chain missiles/meteor can't save them. You can't deal 10k+ dmg often without meta or joy/indulgence on. And no, nerve venom the entire room happen very rarely.

Get spellpower to the max - This make you have to spend time and investment to farm your spellpower item. It's like you never seen a twilight in about 100 CitW run. I got my on my 3rd run though, I saw 6-7 drop out of every 20 runs.

Get high sp pool - a shiradi is only deal massive DPS when they have meta on or when they have joy/indulgence on. And this meant you have to spent time and investment to farm sp item like conc-opp, sp item, torch, stats items, etc.

Sometimes things don't work out perfectly - the only real source of shiradi damage came from innates and some (not a lot) come from double rainbow, and sometimes you get overwhelmed by large number of mobs and your cc doesn't proc/work (ee tor giant immune to never venom). And this mean you have to have some other abilities/spells to back it up. Ex. EE PoP Marut room: this inevitable have a really high resistance to spells damage and also have the ability to dispell/stun while undead mobs attacking you. So spells doesn't work in there good. Another example: undead: they immune to nerve venom.

It required a LOT of skill to solo ee on a shiradi: been there, done that, I tried to solo ee on shiradi before, I know how it is. It even take more skill to do it without pots/re-enter, any casters, yes even divine, can solo ee easily if they re-entering/chunking pots a lot. P.S. There is already an arti with around 620 hp solo like all ee, should we nerf arti now? No.

Using the right stragety (using intelligence): It's like how Shataan solo ee raids, he is the master of finding safe spot in the quest environment so he don't take LOT of damage while doing ee. It require the knowledge of the quest and how the quest and mobs AI work.

We should throw a first life shiradi into ee FoT without decent gears farming/time investment to see how he does. I bet they will die REALLY fast, the spamming of mm won't save you from lightning bomb attack + debuff or 3 undead dragons on you at same time. And without investing time in farming spell absorb like ioun/jeweled cloak, they will die even faster.

They also spend lot of time to leveling their toon to 25, farming ED, and farm decent gears for themselves. They're also smart enough to figure out that DC-based ED like DI and Magister is not so good right now.

P.S.S. There is a button of winning in store already.

Yes some of the grind for Shiradi is there, but you can't honestly believe Shiradi has as much to learn to play them effectively as a well played DC wizard...

I'm cool with Shiradi being an option if people enjoy it, but nerve venom giving +50% damage and immobilizing them for 6 seconds with no save AND no resave makes it a better ability than mass hold which requires a save AND a resave every 2 seconds. Saying nerve venom isnt the majority of the power of Shiradi is just false. This coming from a guy that TRed out of Shiradi sorc/pally because I found it WAY too easy and boring. Ask any monk, +50% damage is amazing, especially if you twist in sense weakness...

[anivaj]

From what I heard/read from forums/wiki, with the new enhancement pass, you can get stats from all of your PrE trees, and their tree enhancement stat stack up with each other, that probably be it.

Which will give an extra 2 DC to wizards and leave all other casting classes that much further behind...

If all this leads to Turbine doing to DCs what they did to AC, that would make A LOT of casters leave the class or the game.

[danzig138]

don't care about balance.

In my experience, most of the people around here who like to throw the word "balance" around, have no idea what that actually means. You are not disproving that perception.

[anivaj]

In my experience, most of the people around here who like to throw the word "balance" around, have no idea what that actually means. You are not disproving that perception.

Hmmmm....so when all arcane casters flock to one ED, that doesnt at least imply that it is not balanced. I see now why you have your reputation disabled :P

[twigzz]

Hmmmm....so when all arcane casters flock to one ED, that doesnt at least imply that it is not balanced. I see now why you have your reputation disabled :P

Not everyone takes Shiradi. I have a couple casters not in Shiradi. *shrugs*

[anivaj]

Not everyone takes Shiradi. I have a couple casters not in Shiradi. *shrugs*

The LARGE majority of casters that run endgame EEs are Shiradi....this is fact.

[Infant]

Why do people keep insisting that DI is not an EE-viable destiny?

I see the problem with DC-based wizards in EE GH. The saves are simply too high.

But from personal experience (playing a first-life easybutton WF Earth Savant), DI is perfectly viable in EE. Its not like you are going to easily solo EEs, but you can definitely pull your weight in a group.

And stop arguing that Shiradi is good because its the only possible caster destiny for a new player. Sorcs are still easier to build and gear than most classes.

[maximus123123]

This coming from a guy that TRed out of Shiradi sorc/pally because I found it WAY too easy and boring.

I put the above statement in the same category as this:

I've run CitW over 100 times and never saw Twilight fall, even for someone else.

mhmmm

[anivaj]

I put the above statement in the same category as this:



mhmmm

I have no clue what you are implying here...

[anivaj]

Why do people keep insisting that DI is not an EE-viable destiny?

I see the problem with DC-based wizards in EE GH. The saves are simply too high.

But from personal experience (playing a first-life easybutton WF Earth Savant), DI is perfectly viable in EE. Its not like you are going to easily solo EEs, but you can definitely pull your weight in a group.

And stop arguing that Shiradi is good because its the only possible caster destiny for a new player. Sorcs are still easier to build and gear than most classes.

If DI abilities had no save, like the easy button nerve venom in Shiradi, I would agree that DI is a good EE destiny. As it is with the high saves, energy burst doing 1/2 damage (or none with evaders) does not make it that appealing compared to Shiradi.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Hmmmm....so when all arcane casters flock to one ED, that doesnt at least imply that it is not balanced. I see now why you have your reputation disabled :P

Shiradi is absolutely not balanced with Draconic and Magister. That doesn't mean that Shiradi is massively overpowered, however. It means that Draconic and Magister offer very few benefits and most of the "benefits" that they do offer either don't work or don't do anything.