Do the pre-made paths gimp a new player ??

[pappo]

When my friend created his first character, I had a build for him that I found on the forums. But he asked, as he made the toon, if the pre-made paths that the characters are offered during creation are just not good, which is why there are so many "custom" builds. He wondered if he had followed a path that he would have just made a "gimp" toon.

I wondered if any players have ever taken a toon all the way to TR by following the "pre-made" paths offered?

[bruener]

gimp? probably not but what this game has that others dont, and what probably keeps it alive is character customization. if he is having fun playing it that way then its fine. that is all that counts anyway. it is a game after all. i suppose you spend less time at the trainer.

[jillie]

Most people consider the pre-made paths to be gimped, or at least, less than desirable, and urge new players to create their own builds. That's one of the strengths of DDO anyway, the extreme customizability of your characters. There are so many great builds available on the forums that I'd urge you to continue using this incredible resource over the relatively poor choices offered by default.

That said, I'm sure you could get one of the pre-made path toons to TR space, but it'll be relatively weaker than its peers, which will show clearly by level 12 or so ...

[pappo]

Most people consider the pre-made paths to be gimped, or at least, less than desirable, and urge new players to create their own builds. That's one of the strengths of DDO anyway, the extreme customizability of your characters. There are so many great builds available on the forums that I'd urge you to continue using this incredible resource over the relatively poor choices offered by default.

That said, I'm sure you could get one of the pre-made path toons to TR space, but it'll be relatively weaker than its peers, which will show clearly by level 12 or so ...

Thanks jillie and bruener for your comments. I guess it wouldn't be in Turbine's best interest if they made paths that would not reach level 20, although I agree that they would be tough.
My first toon was a fighter that stayed on the Stalwart Defender path all the way and he made it to 17 so far.
Again, thanks for your inputs.

[Uska]

I would say that a new player would likely make a better character just by reading what was available to him as he/she made the character than what you get from the paths I mean who made those things? They are really bad.

[gphysalis]

TL;DR
Yes, they are sub par


The paths are basically a collection of abilities that have some relevance to the class that you pick. There are several reasons that these are not optimal:
1. They don't fit your playstyle
2. They don't max con
3. General gimpness
4. UMD

[psykopeta]

paths are for arcade players, i mean, you have no choice, all is instant, can give big headache imho

shortversion: gimp?yes

a kobold w/o idea of ddo would roll a toon better than paths do

[9Crows]

the feat choices,enhancment choices and skill choices on many of the paths are pretty bad

[Khatzhas]

Depends on what you mean. To some people "gimp" means doing 5% less damage than the current FotM best performer.

The paths are most certainly "non-optimal". However they do present a baseline effectiveness, allowing a new player with no experience of D&D to play to a certain style with a character capable of lasting until they learn more and can build their own character using that knowledge of the game.

There are many builds that perform better than the paths builds. But there are many more ways in which a novice could make a less effective character.

[Standal]

Depends on what you mean. To some people "gimp" means doing 5% less damage than the current FotM best performer.

The paths are most certainly "non-optimal". However they do present a baseline effectiveness, allowing a new player with no experience of D&D to play to a certain style with a character capable of lasting until they learn more and can build their own character using that knowledge of the game.

There are many builds that perform better than the paths builds. But there are many more ways in which a novice could make a less effective character.

I found DDO with a web search, so I didn't know anything except it was a F2P MMO. I picked a middle path pally as my first toon because Turbine recommended it as a good soloist. If an actual person I knew had given me that build I'd be very angry with them.

[FestusHood]

First off, does anyone actually know what a completed 'path' character looks like? Is there a list somewhere that tells you what all the feats and enhancements will be?

I've played with a lot of people in game. Lots of them aren't even new players. They built their own toons. Then they tell me how they were built. I'm not sure they were better than the paths.

The first couple initial characters i made were on a path. The initial stats aren't bad. I started picking my own feats and enhancements by about level 3 or so, but not because i knew for sure the path was gimpy. I wanted control. One of my first characters was a cleric made on the warpriest path. He had 16 strength, 14 con and 16 wisdom. I thought about LR'ing him, but didn't, because that's exactly the stats i would have given him.

[Niwareka]

They have not updated since the game started, and even then they were more about flavour than effectiveness.

Fortunately Tihocan came to the rescue many years ago:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660

The thread has not been kept up to date, but for a nice range of starter builds that are easy to understand and will be effective up to L 20, it is a good place to start. And I feel for your friend - if you are more interested in fighting hobgoblins than fighting the Character Planner, there is not much in the way of quick easy advice.

Unfortunately the forums, although generally friendly, are full of exactly those people who LIKE that side of the game.

[fco-karatekid]

Just as the post above said - depends upon goal. A very new or more casual player may be learning the mechanics of the game itself, thus it wouldn't matter WHAT build they used - they're still going to be walking around bumping into things with their collectable bag on their head. :|

When I first started playing, I took a path Wizard (don't remember which) to like 17 or 18. I think they _can_ get to 20/TR range, and can probably survive getting the token fragments to TR; but it will be MUCH more difficult for them with 12 points in Swim and 1 Brutal Throw feat that coulda been used elsewhere

[FestusHood]

Just as the post above said - depends upon goal. A very new or more casual player may be learning the mechanics of the game itself, thus it wouldn't matter WHAT build they used - they're still going to be walking around bumping into things with their collectable bag on their head. :|

When I first started playing, I took a path Wizard (don't remember which) to like 17 or 18. I think they _can_ get to 20/TR range, and can probably survive getting the token fragments to TR; but it will be MUCH more difficult for them with 12 points in Swim and 1 Brutal Throw feat that coulda been used elsewhere

So what choices did it make? I'm actually curious. I'm guessing you are exaggerating with the brutal throw feat. Probably something like combat casting? I can tell you that just the other night i was playing with someone who has been playing for years who wanted that feat. I was in a pug a while back with someone i used to be in a guild with. Someone who has been playing for years. He was telling everyone that he thought diehard was a crucial feat that every character should have.

There was someone i played with for months. Not a bad player, seemed fairly knowledgable about the game. His main toon was a paladin, level 17. I asked him if he remembered to keep divine favor running as much as possible. He didn't really know about it. After talking a bit i discovered that he originally wanted to make a tank, but i never saw him use a shield, only a two handed weapon. Turns out he did not have power attack or improved critical. I told him that he should swap for them as they would add a ton to his damage. A few days later he asked "what were those feats you said i should take again?"

I guess what i am saying is, how bad they are is relative. To the average person who doesn't study builds in the forums, or read all the debates about feats and such, the paths probably aren't any worse than what they would pick on their own.

[Matuse]

Pre-made paths in every game ever made have always gimped your character. Why would DDO be any different?