Teamwork is overrated....

[Ancient]

wow, i wanna see if they can reply to this.

Most of my toons can either get traps... or don't have to worry about them. My paladin would have simply gotten the trap and kept rolling.

[Ancient]

Clearly, I can't speak for the guy who posted that LFM, but I roll up clerics because I want to heal... and I post BYOH LFMs on them because I want the party to fill with people who I enjoy running with.

Because from my perspective, it's much more fun to play the healer with people who take responsibility for their own health.

Well said

[Ilindith]

Funny how teamworks means "babysit me" to some people.

[Quikster]

Please tell me it's 'cause you replaced your bike

no not yet. I did get a new (to me) truck a month or so ago though

No I moved to a different city, remodeled the house we were living in so I could rent it out, and started nursing school.

[pHo3nix]

wow, i wanna see if they can reply to this.

1)I can usually get traps.
2)If i can't get traps it means i can survive running through them

[stoopid_cowboy]

You play a Barbarian, don't you.

Yup. I have a couple of barbs. I also have a couple of arcanes, a couple of fighters, a rogue and a Flavored Soul.

Are you trying to say that since I play a barb I am crying "HJEAL MEH!"? Not happenin dood. one of my barbs always has 100+ SF pots plus resist pots, DW, and GH. I often use that toon to scroll farm. My other barb is only level 21, but has a sustained UMD of 52. Lotsa scrolls!!!

I have said MANY times during this thread, I am all for being self sufficient. The point of this thread is TEAMWORK!

yuda

[Failedlegend]

So please enlighten me people defending this LFM. Why do clerics get special treatment...like not just in DDO but in every MMO everywhere.

Let me break this down.

Cleric posting BYOHs LFM perfectly acceptable

Barbarian posting BYO-Rage/DPS not acceptable

Assassin Rogue saying I don't do traps not acceptable

Wizard posting BYO-Haste not acceptable

Bard posting BYO-Songs not acceptable

Druid posting BYO-Shapeshifting not acceptable

Seems a bit of a double standard don't cha think

[pHo3nix]

So please enlighten me people defending this LFM. Why do clerics get special treatment...like not just in DDO but in every MMO everywhere.

Let me break this down.

Cleric posting BYOHs LFM perfectly acceptable

Barbarian posting BYO-Rage/DPS not acceptable

Assassin Rogue saying I don't do traps not acceptable

Wizard posting BYO-Haste not acceptable

Bard posting BYO-Songs not acceptable

Druid posting BYO-Shapeshifting not acceptable

Seems a bit of a double standard don't cha think

Who said it's not acceptable?

You can post whatever you want in your lfm, good luck filling them if your requests are too strange though

[fredericko]

Nothing is more frustrating then wanting to jump in and do some serious spell damage (since I built a caster cleric) and being told "hey don't waste those spell points you may need to heal us.

That quote depicts a player trying to boss around another player who is actually playing his/her class to one of the class' strengths. This thread is about people choosing to not play their own class to one of the class' strengths, and not just any strength: we're talking a role which
a.) has a very high return-of-investment for them, meaning very few feats and APs yield great rewards;
b.) is a really useful asset in many parties;
c.) is harder to fill by other classes (unlike other critical roles such as CC or DPS).

This is not about telling divines to stick to heals and do nothing else. A fvs/cleric that just heals and doesn't do any of DPSing, AoEs, DoTs, CC or instakill is also a waste of that class' potential and is a toon that ranks low in my party-with list (some outstanding exceptions apply).

[jalont]

Funny how teamworks means "babysit me" to some people.

This is ridiculous.

Every group I join, I strive to do my best, and I expect my groupmates to do the same. The power of clerics are balanced around the idea that they heal others. This means that they do not have the same offensive package (especially in EE) as other toons. Any divine that doesn't use their full arsenal in a quest (whether this be a healbot that never does anything but heal, or a battle divine that never heals while dishing out their subpar melee DPS, or a caster divine that never heals while dealing their subpar caster DPS) is simply a badly played toon, but for some reason, these are the only classes that get a pass. Bringing your best is what teamwork means, and these types of divine aren't bringing their best.

[Failedlegend]

This is ridiculous.

Every group I join, I strive to do my best, and I expect my groupmates to do the same. The power of clerics are balanced around the idea that they heal others. This means that they do not have the same offensive package (especially in EE) as other toons. Any divine that doesn't use their full arsenal in a quest (whether this be a battle divine that never heals while dishing out their melee DPS, or a caster divine that never heals while dealing their subpar caster DPS) is simply a badly played toon, but for some reason, these are the only classes that get a pass. Bringing your best is what teamwork means, and these types of divine aren't bringing their best.

This!!!

That quote depicts a player trying to boss around another player who is actually playing his/her class to one of the class' strengths. This thread is about people choosing to not play their own class to one of the class' strengths, and not just any strength: we're talking a role which
a.) has a very high return-of-investment for them, meaning very few feats and APs yield great rewards;
b.) is a really useful asset in many parties;
c.) is harder to fill by other classes (unlike other critical roles such as CC or DPS).

This is not about telling divines to stick to heals and do nothing else. A fvs/cleric that just heals and doesn't do any of DPSing, AoEs, DoTs, CC or instakill is also a waste of that class' potential and is a toon that ranks low in my party-with list (some outstanding exceptions apply).

and This!!!

Healing isn't the only thing they do if it was they'd be on par with a hireling but refusing to heal means their worth LESS than a hireling. The Cleric in my static group is perfectly capable of healing whilst casting spells and smashing in skulls with her mace.

As for the people who claim they built their cleric "for melee dps not healing" well I'll just grab that barbarian or that fighter than.

[fredericko]

This is ridiculous.
The power of clerics are balanced around the idea that they heal others. This means that they do not have the same offensive package (especially in EE) as other toons.

I'm not sure about that.

[pHo3nix]

This!!!

Healing isn't the only thing they do if it was they'd be on par with a hireling but refusing to heal means their worth LESS than a hireling. The Cleric in my static group is perfectly capable of healing whilst casting spells and smashing in skulls with her mace.

What part of BYOH makes you think that the cleric isn't going to heal anyone else? BYOH just means bring your own heals cause, for various reasons, you might need to heal yourself.

For example, splitting to accomplish different objectives faster is a clear situation where you can see all the advantages of BYOH and you can notice as well that BYOH has nothing to do with cleric/fvs unwilling to heal for some obscure reason: the cleric/fvs (if there's one in party) is probably completing an objective on his own, so he can't keep your lazy person alive on the other side of the dungeon

[Failedlegend]

What part of BYOH makes you think that the cleric isn't going to heal anyone else? BYOH just means bring your own heals cause, for various reasons, you might need to heal yourself.

For example, splitting to accomplish different objectives faster is a clear situation where you can see all the advantages of BYOH and you can notice as well that BYOH has nothing to do with cleric/fvs unwilling to heal for some obscure reason: the cleric/fvs (if there's one in party) is probably completing an objective on his own, so he can't keep your lazy person alive on the other side of the dungeon

Well if he can't be bothered to heal my "lazy" Wizard I can't be bothered to buff him and my Barbarian will do just that if I can't be healed I can't afford to go into full rage/death frenzy mode so i may as well unequip my greataxe...I'll just follow the cleric around not attacking anything or hell I just won't join the group have fun doing quests by yourself because I actually like playing this gaming...piking isn't fun.

Sidenote: Funny that Clerics expect my Fleshy Single-class Sorc to heal himself but whine that my WF Wizard didn't take healer's friend because I can heal myself perfectly fine and clerics never heal me or that they can't heal my Fleshy PM who is pretty much constantly near full HP.

[Stormraiser]

wow, i wanna see if they can reply to this.

And do you know what happens in self sufficient groups? Often the traps are either not done and skipped over if their time commitment is bad, or everyone runs through the traps and the rogue will stay and disable them maximizing efficiency (up to the the max disarm bonus) or people who know they can't survive a certain trap, will stay back and wait for the rogue/artificer to disable it. Part of BYOH is knowing what you can and can't do.

From a point of view of a quest, a bard, a cleric, a barbarian, a wizard all have the same "job," someone (a quest giver) hired them to complete a task, how they do it is up to them. Teamwork means different things to different people. It doesn't always mean everyone stick together and we are going to kill this one enemy, really really hard!

[Stormraiser]

This is ridiculous.

Every group I join, I strive to do my best, and I expect my groupmates to do the same. The power of clerics are balanced around the idea that they heal others. This means that they do not have the same offensive package (especially in EE) as other toons. Any divine that doesn't use their full arsenal in a quest (whether this be a healbot that never does anything but heal, or a battle divine that never heals while dishing out their subpar melee DPS, or a caster divine that never heals while dealing their subpar caster DPS) is simply a badly played toon, but for some reason, these are the only classes that get a pass. Bringing your best is what teamwork means, and these types of divine aren't bringing their best.

So...Would you say that a barbarian's DPS and quest contribution is more then (keep in mind, everyone is in an epic destiny) :

A) 2 clerics?
B) 2 monkchers
C) 2 Shiradi Sorcs
D) 2 random builds?

Because Barbarian DPS + following and healing barbarian = 2 character slots. In the dragon fights in EE Tor, you're not going to be able group everyone for mass heals.

[pHo3nix]

Well if he can't be bothered to heal my "lazy" Wizard I can't be bothered to buff him and my Barbarian will do just that if I can't be healed I can't afford to go into full rage/death frenzy mode so i may as well unequip my greataxe...I'll just follow the cleric around not attacking anything or hell I just won't join the group have fun doing quests by yourself because I actually like playing this gaming...piking isn't fun.

The "small" difference is that a self sufficient toon can complete an objective on his own, he doesn't need your buffs or your dps A party of self sufficient toons is way better than any other party: everyone can heal (themselves or other teammates in difficulty), everyone can raise, everyone can DPS

Monodimensional toons are usually wasted party slots: a cleric/fvs that only heals is useless in a self sufficient party, a DPS toon that cannot keep himself alive is useless if there's nobody to babysit him, a rogue that can only do traps is useless if there aren't traps or if other party members can just pass through traps.

[fredericko]

For example, splitting to accomplish different objectives faster is a clear situation where you can see all the advantages of BYOH and you can notice as well that BYOH has nothing to do with cleric/fvs unwilling to heal for some obscure reason: the cleric/fvs (if there's one in party) is probably completing an objective on his own, so he can't keep your lazy person alive on the other side of the dungeon

BYOH does not equal zerging. My melee posts only BYOH - IP LFMs because I'm not waiting on anyone to play my favorite toon. That doesn't mean I'm going to zerg (though admittedly I nearly always do). Conversely, if I expect players who join my LFM to solo a tower in a Chamber of Raiyum run I should add zerg to the LFM and not just BYOH, because otherwise I might have someone join the group that has empower healing and halfling dragonmarks and 166% healing amp but doesn't know his way inside the tomb.

[pHo3nix]

BYOH does not equal zerging. My melee posts only BYOH - IP LFMs because I'm not waiting on anyone to play my favorite toon. That doesn't mean I'm going to zerg (though admittedly I nearly always do). Conversely, if I expect players who join my LFM to solo a tower in a Chamber of Raiyum run I should add zerg to the LFM and not just BYOH, because otherwise I might have someone join the group that has empower healing and halfling dragonmarks and 166% healing amp but doesn't know his way inside the tomb.

Where did i say zerg? :O

Splitting to complete objectives faster doesn't mean zerging

[Failedlegend]

A party of self sufficient toons is way better than any other party:

Incorrect a well-balanced party with abilities that synergize with the other members in the group each is much more effective than a party full of jack of all trades.

a cleric/fvs that only heals is useless

Well not useless but worth about the same as a hireling or an Assassin that won't do traps or a mechanic that can ONLY do traps. Any player of any class should use every "useful" ability at their disposal to be effective as possible whether Single or Multi-classed BUT a Barb should not be forced to lower their Str or Con to increase Int so they can take UMD to appease the Cleric Coalition that can't be bothered to use their innate abilities (seriously you get heals slotted for free) and insist on only meleeing...which is theyy only wanted to melee shouldn't have rolled a cleric. Just like I'd tell a barbarian who doesn't like raging to roll a Fighter (roleplaying reasons aside)