Teamwork is overrated....

[pHo3nix]

It just bothers me when LFM's put up by "role specific classes" do not what to do their "role". For instance, in this LFM, a Cleric (hjealing class) posted a BYOH group. I read that as "I dont feel like doing my job. Do it yourself and give me my loot."

Where do you get the fact that clerics are a healing class? They are listed under spellcasters. In PnP neutral(if they choose to) and evil clerics cannot convert their spells to cures but only to inflicts, so in theory they could have no healing spells at all. The idea that clerics (and fvs) are healers is completely wrong: they are just chosen by their gods and rewarded with great powers: they can use those powers as they wish

And there's nothing strange or wrong with clerics putting BYOH lfms: it doesn't mean they won't heal at all, it just means that people should be able to take care of themselves; if they aren't able to do that,they should just avoid BYOH lfms and wait for a nanny

[Cashiry]

My point is, has Sarlona dropped to that level? Every man for himself???

p.s. No, I didn't join the group.

For most part, TBH this is how it is, all my toons are self sufficient due to that very reason. Most healer classes forget to heal. Very few Caster classes(other than bards) feal that if your not near me when I haste(one of the reasons Jorg's collar is popular for mele), too bad.. My magic is for killing(fine with that).

Though IMHO, if one of these classes joins a Raid, and doesn't fulfill their class requirements, they don't last long and won't be re-invited for another raid. There are a lot of players who can't be self sufficient due to being inexperienced/new to the game or just plain are that bad. They need some babysitting. So if a particular healer class joins a raid, they should be prepared to heal not only their selves, but others as well.

I was in a raid the other day with a cleric who failed to heal himself in Fall Of Truth, he was under 10% health for at least 2-3 mins. He blamed it on the BOOM when he died(he very well may have had Boom, however), because he was too busy pew pew with his bow and not paying attention. (I won't mention any names, though I'm sure you all can guess who I am referring too.)

Anyways. I'm fine with BYOH groups for the most part. I don't believe however, that it belongs in raids.

[fredericko]

Let's suppose we are rating the effort someone can put into a toon (building and playstyle both included) on a 0 to 10 scale. Some players refuse to go to level 1 to help another player because this player has not yet reached level 7 in the aforesaid scale.

There's nothing inherently wrong in BYOH LFMs, true, but in the OP's case there's a higher chance of finding one of those players unwilling to hit a button to help another player.

[stoopid_cowboy]

Where do you get the fact that clerics are a healing class?

[Chai]

And there's nothing strange or wrong with clerics putting BYOH lfms: it doesn't mean they won't heal at all, it just means that people should be able to take care of themselves; if they aren't able to do that,they should just avoid BYOH lfms and wait for a nanny

Or as the OP stated, every single person on the server can avoid their LFMs and then they dont have to nanny anyone.

Why roll a cleric if not wanting to heal? This dude should have rolled a sorc. This guy is saying hes not willing to do half of what his class is capable of, while likely not bringing the DPS of a class that cant heal as well as he can. If someone is on a divine that cant (not built to) heal or wont (by choice) heal, they better be contributing the same DPS as a regular DPS build id take in their place, because thats the slot they are taking up.

[Kalari]

To me, this ranks right up there with the "Eite, know your role, no noobs, know quest, no hand holding! need guide"

yuda

It just bothers me when LFM's put up by "role specific classes" do not what to do their "role". For instance, in this LFM, a Cleric (hjealing class) posted a BYOH group. I read that as "I dont feel like doing my job. Do it yourself and give me my loot." But, don't misunderstand me, I totally beleive ALL classes should be self suficient to run EE quests. I just see it as bad "teamwork" when the party leader says upfront "I am not playing my role". I would toss this into a LFM posted by a bard "Play your own songs", a whizzard "Haste yourself", a rogue "assasin don't do traps", a barb "DPS for me so I dont hurt myself", well you get the point.

And yes, I know the "His party his choice. Dont like, dont join. blah blah blah...." My point is, has Sarlona dropped to that level? Every man for himself???

yuda
p.s. No, I didn't join the group.

There is something I just don't get about this thread,

You laugh about "Know your role" lfms

Then in the same breath say "role specific classes" who do not "want to do their role?"

When I read this I think "I am the only person allowed to decide what "Role" I am going to play with my characters.

Healing is a big part of playing any divine, but it is not the only part, and some of us like using our damage spells, and hate being in groups that tell us what to do with our mana.

Nothing is more frustrating then wanting to jump in and do some serious spell damage (since I built a caster cleric) and being told "hey don't waste those spell points you may need to heal us.

One of the many reasons I love being in a guild who realize "Kam don't give a **** about healing us"


Sometimes we clerics like to branch out and not be a personal hp sitter just saying.

[pHo3nix]

Why roll a cleric if not wanting to heal?

To have a really powerful toon that can self heal easily?

While keeping up aura and using burst/mass cures here and there is ok, playing like a hireling isn't what most people consider fun

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I am against roles.

I am against expecting every cleric to babysit you. (even more so on FVS who have to chose to take healing spells.)

I do BMoH.

But I am against BYOH LFMs... perhaps more so when put up by a Cleric.

I am all for team play... and helping people.
(note: team play does not mean I hold the Barbarian's cape while he whacks on the boss.)


I avoid playing Clerics and Favored Souls partially because of the expectation that I babysit everyone.

I would have much more respect for a Cleric to put up a more creative LFM comment, that made it clear he does not want to be playing a dedicated healer role.

[rest]

One of the many reasons I love being in a guild who realize "Kam don't give a **** about healing us"

You're too laggy on raid night to heal anybody anyway

[Stormraiser]

It just bothers me when LFM's put up by "role specific classes" do not what to do their "role". For instance, in this LFM, a Cleric (hjealing class) posted a BYOH group. I read that as "I dont feel like doing my job. Do it yourself and give me my loot." But, don't misunderstand me, I totally beleive ALL classes should be self suficient to run EE quests. I just see it as bad "teamwork" when the party leader says upfront "I am not playing my role". I would toss this into a LFM posted by a bard "Play your own songs", a whizzard "Haste yourself", a rogue "assasin don't do traps", a barb "DPS for me so I dont hurt myself", well you get the point.

And yes, I know the "His party his choice. Dont like, dont join. blah blah blah...." My point is, has Sarlona dropped to that level? Every man for himself???

yuda
p.s. No, I didn't join the group.

It just bothers me when forum posts pigeonhole certain classes into their own narrow view of what they should or should not do. A cleric is a class of "DIVINE AWESOMENESS" not a class to sit there and wait for you to get hit so you can get healed. Maybe you should have read the post as saying "I feel like having a very fast run where I direct my resources toward killing the boss, and I hope that everyone joins has the same idea. Oh yea, its EE and if you can't pull your own weight...well, choose another group"

[Kalari]

You're too laggy on raid night to heal anybody anyway

sigh sad but true getting my isp changed its getting beyond redonkulous!

[stoopid_cowboy]

It just bothers me when forum posts pigeonhole certain classes into their own narrow view of what they should or should not do.

So, are you saying that it is not a bard's "job" to sing you songs? An arty's "job" to give you weapon buffs? A Sorc's "job" to give you haste and rage? A flavored soul's "job" to give you death ward? A ranger's "job" to give you FOM?

But that's not what this thread is about! This thread is about TEAMWORK. Doing all of the above things is the heart of TEAMWORK.

But after reading through this thread, and all of the neg rep I have received, I now have an entirely new view on how Salona feels about grouping.

Thank you to the few folks that have actually posted with common sense in this thread! To the rest, play your character how you want and happy hunting!

yuda

[redspecter23]

I don't think it's anyone's "job" to do anything in this game, but as you mention there is a lot of credit to be given to anyone that is willing to contribute their class abilities for the sake of the greater good of the team.

A bard is not required to sing songs, but those that are invited along to raids may find themselves not invited back if they don't contribute some songs upon request at minimum.

I'd like to think that a divine class with byoh posted in the LFM is looking for people that are mostly self sufficient, but they won't hesitate to toss a heal now and then. They just don't want to play nannybot babysitter to 5 other people, which in my opinion would be just as bad as the divine asking for byoh to begin with. It's hard to determine the exact reasoning behind the LFM as there really isn't much space to work with. I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say that he's just a little bit sick of playing nannybot to players that have no intention of bringing any self sufficiency to the group at all.

[maximus123123]

Teamwork is overrated....

Depends on if your definition of teamwork means having a healer or two follow you around wherever you go...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

So, are you saying that it is not a bard's "job" to sing you songs? An arty's "job" to give you weapon buffs? A Sorc's "job" to give you haste and rage? A flavored soul's "job" to give you death ward? A ranger's "job" to give you FOM?

But that's not what this thread is about! This thread is about TEAMWORK. Doing all of the above things is the heart of TEAMWORK.

But after reading through this thread, and all of the neg rep I have received, I now have an entirely new view on how Salona feels about grouping.

Thank you to the few folks that have actually posted with common sense in this thread! To the rest, play your character how you want and happy hunting!

yuda

You play a Barbarian, don't you.

[bruener]

Where do you get the fact that clerics are a healing class? They are listed under spellcasters. In PnP neutral(if they choose to) and evil clerics cannot convert their spells to cures but only to inflicts, so in theory they could have no healing spells at all.

the fact that you cannot unlearn cure spells kinda gives ya a clue. in case you hadn't noticed this isn't pnp.

other than that its his lfm so its his rules.

[Khatzhas]

I think that part of this thread is just devolving into a semantics issue.

To some "Healer" means someone able to perform that role. Whether they choose to or not.
To others, it means the person currently performing the role.
To yet more it means someone only healing and nothing else.

It you're going to rail against your view of one of these extremes, please be clear about which.

[Kalari]

I didn't neg ya Yuda shocked anyone that did since you werent being offensive on purpose.

But I do find it sad that people relegate gaming to "A job"

no hun a job pays me or else I aint doing it.

"But Kal what about the reward of having fair team play."

screw that noise I play with drunks, I also play to have fun we try to kill each other even in raids, we have FUN

I think that's the thing that is sorely missing from a lot of forum peoples vocabulary.

Every time I see someone who mentions "roles" or Jobs I want to punch a kitten seriously.

I didn't think it was a job playing any sort of video games if I did I wouldn't play them.

[Phidius]

...
No, still on the face of the earth, just not sitting at a computer much the last 2 years

Please tell me it's 'cause you replaced your bike

...
Why roll a cleric if not wanting to heal?
...

Clearly, I can't speak for the guy who posted that LFM, but I roll up clerics because I want to heal... and I post BYOH LFMs on them because I want the party to fill with people who I enjoy running with.

Because from my perspective, it's much more fun to play the healer with people who take responsibility for their own health.

[Phemt81]

The other day I was on my rogue helping my friend who was TR'ing his multi-TR'ed barb. My rogue is a 1st lifer so he was xp capped. We were doing a quest with some traps, not full of traps but with some nasty traps in some key spots.

We had a Fvs in the party who wasn't very enthusiastic about healing. So, as I was standing in front of the trap, it came to my head that disabling that trap did absolutely nothing for me, since ingenous debilitation xp bonus means nothing to an xp capped toon and I was a lvl 17 3rogue with >30 dex, +5 resistance item, action boost: saves IV from human versatility and improved uncanny dodge all ready and available. Just because I have a rogue sneaking around in my icon doesn't mean I have to babysit you; every toon should have some degree of self-sufficiency, and no one asked me if I could/wanted to do traps.

So why didn't I just run past the traps? I didn't because I'm not a jerk, pure and simple.

wow, i wanna see if they can reply to this.