giants and their knock away effect

[Munkenmo]

I dunno, it does annoy me being knocked back on my "Stalwart Defender" of "Defender of Siberys"

To me it does seem reasonable that the defender prestige could be immune to some degree of giants / dragons knock back without having to shield block.

[chanw4]

The knockback should be toned down i think, its pretty ridiculous when you a being knockback left and right with multiple giants when all of the attack missed etc. You get knockback even when you are behind the giant too...

[bloodnose13]

How about the block method on a swing so its not just run up and auto attack? Have you tried how about timing your attacks so you know what your doing...

yes i tried that, it works perfectly, against ONE giant, fighting 3+ at once where each of them swings at other moment means blocking all the time...........

also some giants heal themselves faster than some ppl can do damage to them, blocking every time they intend to swing at you means that he can drop a heal in mdidle and you wont kill even one of them that way.

Could you give an example of a class you feel is unbalanced?

read that post again please, i didint say anything about unbalanced classes, i said game is balanced towards some classes more or less, dps is the king of the ddo, when you get knocked back every time you start hitting giant OR you use your special attack on giant, dps gets wasted, monk can run up, stun and have fun, NOT EVERY CLASS CAN TAKE STUN and be effective with it at high levels. high level dc for stuns is only reachable with dc boosts from class, and destiny without that you cant do that period.

tactics are good but when under constant barrage of blows from enemies, you can do only one thing....... HIDE and hope they will die of old age.

ok my initial idea of removeing that effect does not make sense i get that now, but come on getting pushed aroudn even on miss does not make sense either. i only ask to make giants less of pain to fight in groups, what happens most of time.

[Archangel666]

read that post again please, i didint say anything about unbalanced classes, i said game is balanced towards some classes more or less, dps is the king of the ddo, when you get knocked back every time you start hitting giant OR you use your special attack on giant, dps gets wasted, monk can run up, stun and have fun, NOT EVERY CLASS CAN TAKE STUN and be effective with it at high levels. high level dc for stuns is only reachable with dc boosts from class, and destiny without that you cant do that period.

True. Not every class can stun.

Instead, a Fighter who gets a crapload more Feats than any other class in the game might want to consider spending a few on Ranged related ones, so that they have an option for when getting close isn't the best choice, or they might consider taking a few Tactical Feats.

A Bard might Fascinate, Hold or Charm the offending mobs.

A Rogue might Assassinate them or use a Repeater if a Mechanic.

A Barb with their enormous Strength might try using Stunning Blow on them.

I won't bother with examples of what a Favoured Soul, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, Arti or Ranger might do, because quite frankly those should be self evident.

*Edit* I'll admit, I did completely forget about Pally's here, and at first blush I think they might have drawn the short straw on this one.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

great.... ty for takeing it seriously

-sarcasm off

now seriously, not every class can stun or do anything to stop stuff from moveing, so saying hey my monk can do tat or this means nothing, game should be balanced for all classes, and this effect is simply annoying so yea, maybe not remove it but makeing it a crit effect or at least a HIT effect would go long way in makeing it less annoying, epic gh has more giants everywhere than it had before, you cant enter slayer area not to get at least 3 giants at you all the time, i play a tank char and its just ridicolous when 3 giants or more play tennis with your char.

all i ask is for this to be made LESS ANNOYING thats all.

There are plenty of opportunities/quests/etc. for one class/attack style to shine.

It would be a boring game if one attack solved all problems.

I do not believe or want class balance.
I want a variety of challenges that force people to change tactics.

go find a non-giant and kick his butt with ease.


Yes, I know it is annoying. But they "are" giants... huge creatures that if they actually did exist would be able to swat us like flies. Seem slogical to me that they can sweep us away from them.

Adjust tactics to compensate.

[Archangel666]

There are plenty of opportunities/quests/etc. for one class/attack style to shine.

It would be a boring game if one attack solved all problems.

I do not believe or want class balance.
I want a variety of challenges that force people to change tactics.

go find a non-giant and kick his butt with ease.


Yes, I know it is annoying. But they "are" giants... huge creatures that if they actually did exist would be able to swat us like flies. Seem slogical to me that they can sweep us away from them.

Adjust tactics to compensate.

While, on the whole I agree with you Talon, Ayseifn and CheeseMilk did raise a good point with the following.

The only thing that bugs me about the giants knockback attack is that displace/ghostly/etc. don't stop it, if the giant missed why am I still getting pushed away?

I don't mind at all getting knocked around when they hit me, but when they miss or I dodge or whatever, it doesn't really make sense.

[danzig138]

I do not believe or want class balance.

What you believe in or want doesn't matter. DDO is still vaguely based on 3/3.5, and one of the goals (which they didn't achieve terribly well) was mechanical balance between the classes, so your wants are irrelevant. If you dont' want balance, go play Eye of the Beholder or Baldur's Gate.

Now, as a house rule, since we've already warped the skills a lot, what I would do is follow the normal Strength check to resist, unless you have ranks in Tumble. A successful Tumble check against a DC determined by the type of giant would effectively negate the knockback effect.

As for Balance, it represents a kip up type of movement.

But I also think the fact that we can't attack when prone is ****:

The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

While, on the whole I agree with you Talon, Ayseifn and CheeseMilk did raise a good point with the following.

I do agree that is could use some tweaking.

Lots of things in this game seem like they took the easest approach and not th emost accurate one.

Yes, they should have to "hit" you. Although armor should not matter... but DDO does not use "touch" attacks. (But it should)

Yes.. lots of defenses "should" work against it. I totally agree.


Many other types of attacks by monsters should be looked at as well.

One of my pet peaves is Wolves' area of effect, no hit required, trip attack. But it does kinda make a pack of wolves dangerous... which is believable....

[Vellrad]

I hate no save effects.
But even more I save succesful save is the same result as failed effect.
And giants' knockback is one of them. I can roll 3 20s in row and still fly.

[DarkForte]

DDO is still vaguely based on 3/3.5, and one of the goals (which they didn't achieve terribly well) was mechanical balance between the classes, so your wants are irrelevant.

You want me to reasonably expect that a game that gives shapechange, gate and wish to wizards and lets fighters hit stuff hard with a sword looks for mechanical balance? Give me a break.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

What you believe in or want doesn't matter. DDO is still vaguely based on 3/3.5, and one of the goals (which they didn't achieve terribly well) was mechanical balance between the classes, so your wants are irrelevant. If you dont' want balance, go play Eye of the Beholder or Baldur's Gate.

Now, as a house rule, since we've already warped the skills a lot, what I would do is follow the normal Strength check to resist, unless you have ranks in Tumble. A successful Tumble check against a DC determined by the type of giant would effectively negate the knockback effect.

As for Balance, it represents a kip up type of movement.

But I also think the fact that we can't attack when prone is ****:

Well what you believe or want doesn't matter either.. lol.. Only what Turbine chooses.

But I disagree with your interpretation of 3.5 and classes being balanced.

Different classes are good at different things.

The way they get balanced is by DMs providing challenges that let different classes shine at different times.

DDO "is" lacking in many areas. anything that does not involve actually combat for instance.

This does hurt class balance.


Anyway... I am totally against every class being equal against every type of challenge.

(they need to un-nerf Golems)

There should never be one type of attack that solves all problems.

and every class needs its Kryptonite as well.


Every player of any class should carry equipment to use in different situations.
On the most basic level, every character should have a melee and a ranged weapon.

and there should be times in this game that makes Barbarians pull out a ranged weapon.
Times for archers to be back against a wall and have to pull out a melee wep.

times where spells are useless....

etc.

[bloodnose13]

compareing pnp to ddo is bit pointless, in pnp fights with anything dont look like the ones in ddo, fights dont last for long, and unless DM wants you to die he wont drop on you 10 diffrent things to beat on you at same time.

ddo is diffrent and while i aggree that each class is diffrent and should play diffrent, you cant make an areas full of one monster type and make some classes get ....ed against that monster. its like saying stop playing those classes and go play monk or anything other that works good. its against any logic.